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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #8841  
Old 21.04.2017, 13:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ball is in your court- give me one promise made by the Leave campaign/Gvt during the Brexit campaign which they have honoured.

Like 'Your NHS is safe with us' ? Which today =

Theresa May suggests UK health services could be part of US trade deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7548156.html

never mind the 350m a week promised too.
The ball is not in my court, Oldie. You were the one that claimed she had broken every promise in your usual exaggerated blanket statement style. Put up, or preferably, shut up.
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  #8842  
Old 21.04.2017, 13:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Because of course we all know what a brilliant health service the USA has,
I always thought you were a fan of Obama and Obamacare?
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  #8843  
Old 21.04.2017, 13:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The ball is not in my court, Oldie. You were the one that claimed she had broken every promise in your usual exaggerated blanket statement style. Put up, or preferably, shut up.
Logically speaking Richdog, Odile is right.

To disprove Odile's claim that May has broken all promises you do need to produce one promise she didn't break.

Effectively of couse, May was on the remain side and so didn't promise anything for a leave scenario.

If you don't make any promises, you can't break any, but you can't keep any either.

One can of course debate to what degree she can be held accountable for the promises of others.
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  #8844  
Old 21.04.2017, 13:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The ball is not in my court, Oldie. You were the one that claimed she had broken every promise in your usual exaggerated blanket statement style. Put up, or preferably, shut up.
The problem with some older posters is they don't even remember what they wrote before & can't separate reality from fiction. Very sad really.
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  #8845  
Old 21.04.2017, 13:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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U.K. Retail Sales Post Biggest Quarterly Drop Since Early 2010
In March 2017 alone, sales dropped 1.8 percent, far exceeding the 0.5 percent decline forecast by economists.

Households are being squeezed by rising food and fuel costs, the result of the pound’s 14 percent drop since the June vote to leave the European Union. The price of retail goods sold in March increased an annual 3.3 percent, the most since March 2012.

Source

Lucky for May the May sales figures will not arrive before the election; of course April figures will

Meanwhile the eurozone economic numbers are better than forecast with strong growth forecast.
Then again ...

"Online shoppers in the UK spend more per household than consumers in any other country, a report says, amid a shift from stores to the internet.

UK households spent the equivalent of $5,900 (£4,611) using payment cards online in 2015, the UK Cards Association said.

This was higher than Norway ($5,400), the US ($4,500) and Australia ($4,000).

The association suggested the frequency of debit and credit cards and the ease of delivering items drove online buys.

New figures from the association showed that £154bn was spent on the internet using cards in 2016 - up by a quarter in two years."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39655039
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  #8846  
Old 21.04.2017, 14:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Then again ...

"Online shoppers in the UK spend more per household than consumers in any other country, a report says, amid a shift from stores to the internet.

UK households spent the equivalent of $5,900 (£4,611) using payment cards online in 2015, the UK Cards Association said.

This was higher than Norway ($5,400), the US ($4,500) and Australia ($4,000).

The association suggested the frequency of debit and credit cards and the ease of delivering items drove online buys.

New figures from the association showed that £154bn was spent on the internet using cards in 2016 - up by a quarter in two years."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39655039
Basically irrelevant to marton's post. Total retail spending includes online so if online is up then regular stores are down even more than the average. Online represents some 16% of the total and grew about 12% in 2016. This means that bricks and mortar stores must have seen a roughly 4½% fall to make it all add up.

There's more retail bankruptcies coming in the next few years.
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  #8847  
Old 21.04.2017, 14:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Logically speaking Richdog, Odile is right.

To disprove Odile's claim that May has broken all promises you do need to produce one promise she didn't break.

Effectively of couse, May was on the remain side and so didn't promise anything for a leave scenario.

If you don't make any promises, you can't break any, but you can't keep any either.

One can of course debate to what degree she can be held accountable for the promises of others.
Hmm lets see... her promise for triggering article 50 by end of March 2017? That is kind of, you know, a rather obvious one.

I would say the way it works is that if someone makes an illogical blanket statement then they have to back it up, not the other way around. Otherwise debates would be tiresome indeed if you had to go and get evidence of proving every bit of nonsense someone else said...
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  #8848  
Old 21.04.2017, 15:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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UK households spent the equivalent of $5,900 (£4,611) using payment cards online in 2015, the UK Cards Association said.

This was higher than Norway ($5,400), the US ($4,500) and Australia ($4,000).
I was expecting the figure to be higher than that.

Most airlines and package holiday providers these days are online and credit cards are the easiest way to pay them. So how much will say a family of four spend on their holiday package? And then the whole steup is pushing people to buy more and more stuff online. Train tickets for example. Bricks and mortar ticket offices are becoming increasingly useless. Theatres and things? Again the box office is increasingly a thing of the past. And then of course there is all the small stuff you buy online that adds up. I don't think that figure is remarkably high.
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  #8849  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The problem with some older posters is they don't even remember what they wrote before & can't separate reality from fiction. Very sad really.
Define 'older'.

Quote:
Basically irrelevant to marton's post. Total retail spending includes online so if online is up then regular stores are down even more than the average. Online represents some 16% of the total and grew about 12% in 2016. This means that bricks and mortar stores must have seen a roughly 4½% fall to make it all add up.

There's more retail bankruptcies coming in the next few years
Exactly.
With workers grabbing all the overtime they can, whilst they can, and also needing to save as much money as possible on every purchase, it's hardly surprising.

For my last 4yrs in the UK, the homepage on my laptop was the Top Cashback website. My sis-in-law and a few friends have the same homepage, and I saved literally hundreds by shopping via that website.
As I regularly didn't get home from work til 7.30-8pm, if it wasn't in Tesco or Asda, it had to be bought online.
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  #8850  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Could you please help me here. John Redwood, this arch-Conservative- made the comment today on Twitter, that there is no need at all to buy German, French or foreign owned cars- people could just buy British cars to avoid tarifs.

Now I have been scratching my head- which brand would that be?

Bentley? nein
Rolls Royce ? nein
Jaguar? nein

Perhaps Aston Martin? Not sure. Would that be the equivalent of 'let them eat cake' 21C?
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  #8851  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I was expecting the figure to be higher than that.
From the gov.uk website, Pay your tax bill by debit or credit card

(though why the credit card companies should get a cut of your tax bill is beyond me)
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  #8852  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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... people could just buy British cars to avoid tarifs.

Now I have been scratching my head- which brand would that be?
Presumably cars built in Britain, which would include Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Jaguar etc.

The fact that those are foreign owned doesn't alter the place they are built.

* edited to add: though that might not be the full range of models those manufacturers produce
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  #8853  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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* edited to add: though that might not be the full range of models those manufacturers produce
Assembled would be more appropriate at this stage.
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  #8854  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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(though why the credit card companies should get a cut of your tax bill is beyond me)
Why should the card companies give their services for free???
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  #8855  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Then again ...

"Online shoppers in the UK spend more per household than consumers in any other country, a report says, amid a shift from stores to the internet.

UK households spent the equivalent of $5,900 (£4,611) using payment cards online in 2015, the UK Cards Association said.

This was higher than Norway ($5,400), the US ($4,500) and Australia ($4,000).

The association suggested the frequency of debit and credit cards and the ease of delivering items drove online buys.

New figures from the association showed that £154bn was spent on the internet using cards in 2016 - up by a quarter in two years."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39655039
But I was talking about the drop in retail sales in 2017? What is the relevance of quoting historical 2015 and 2016 numbers?

The UK is described as a consumer driven economy and this why why it is so serious when people reduce their spending.

BTW, the poor retail sales figures I quoted for 2017 did include online sales.

Source
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  #8856  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Presumably cars built in Britain, which would include Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Jaguar etc.

The fact that those are foreign owned doesn't alter the place they are built.

* edited to add: though that might not be the full range of models those manufacturers produce
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Assembled would be more appropriate at this stage.
On average cars assembled in UK have around half their components imported so there will be tariffs on these "British" built cars.

Now "British" manufacturers have the choice of staying with the current situation or encouraging component suppliers to build factories in England; whether these factories would have a large enough market for their volumes to be profitable versus importing is a good question.
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  #8857  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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(though why the credit card companies should get a cut of your tax bill is beyond me)
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Why should the card companies give their services for free???
I should have written percentage of there.

A flat rate charge is fine by me, but unless the government have arranged special terms, a percentage it will be.
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  #8858  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The problem with some older posters is they don't even remember what they wrote before & can't separate reality from fiction. Very sad really.
Selective memory is a valuable asset for politicians, as is the ability to invent statistics on the fly
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  #8859  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Could you please help me here. John Redwood, this arch-Conservative- made the comment today on Twitter, that there is no need at all to buy German, French or foreign owned cars- people could just buy British cars to avoid tarifs.
Because he is clueless. The one thing BREXIT is go at, is identify those politicians who are not up to the job.

We really should have some kind of basic exams for them. Say basic exams in economics, finance, science/environment etc... and then a special legal exam depending on which parliament you are running for.

Even in professional football where reputation and experience are the main criteria for appointment to management, they are still all required to have done the courses, taken the exams and be professionally certified.
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  #8860  
Old 21.04.2017, 16:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I was expecting the figure to be higher than that.

Most airlines and package holiday providers these days are online and credit cards are the easiest way to pay them. So how much will say a family of four spend on their holiday package? And then the whole steup is pushing people to buy more and more stuff online. Train tickets for example. Bricks and mortar ticket offices are becoming increasingly useless. Theatres and things? Again the box office is increasingly a thing of the past. And then of course there is all the small stuff you buy online that adds up. I don't think that figure is remarkably high.
Given that UK median household income is about £23,500 this means about 20% is being spent online. As much of that is discretionary spending (holidays, theatres, even the train tickets to a fair degree given that season tickets are still often done in person, at least outside of the TFL area) I find that quite a lot.
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