Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8921  
Old 30.04.2017, 15:52
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,556 Times in 6,310 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Is history also being rewritten now?
Do not overlook the European Union's peace investment, worth 724 million euros.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #8922  
Old 01.05.2017, 11:48
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Is history also being rewritten now?
No, but I suppose the border will have to go back up. You don't want those pesky Europeans getting unchecked entry.
Reply With Quote
  #8923  
Old 01.05.2017, 12:03
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,790
Groaned at 54 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 3,020 Times in 1,523 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
No, but I suppose the border will have to go back up. You don't want those pesky Europeans getting unchecked entry.
I think so too. On the other hand at the rate passport applications are going, there will be very few people left in NI that don't have two passports! So checks on the Irish side will be a bit weird...
Reply With Quote
  #8924  
Old 01.05.2017, 15:15
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,556 Times in 6,310 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
No, but I suppose the border will have to go back up. You don't want those pesky Europeans getting unchecked entry.
Without a hard border it will become a smugglers paradise with the new high tariffs to avoid.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #8925  
Old 03.05.2017, 08:47
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,756
Groaned at 498 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 7,890 Times in 3,093 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Guess the realities of a Brexit shaped budget hole are starting to become apparent.

Brussels hoists gross Brexit ‘bill’ to €100bn
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #8926  
Old 03.05.2017, 09:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,368
Groaned at 592 Times in 449 Posts
Thanked 13,918 Times in 5,410 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Guess the realities of a Brexit shaped budget hole are starting to become apparent.

Brussels hoists gross Brexit ‘bill’ to €100bn
You have to sign up to view that link, says "Subscribe to read".
Reply With Quote
  #8927  
Old 03.05.2017, 09:19
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,756
Groaned at 498 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 7,890 Times in 3,093 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
You have to sign up to view that link, says "Subscribe to read".
Here it is:

Brussels hoists gross Brexit ‘bill’ to €100bn

France and Germany back tougher approach to Britain’s departure obligations





The EU has raised its opening demand for Britain’s Brexit bill to an upfront gross payment of up to €100bn, according to Financial Times analysis of new stricter demands driven by France and Germany.

Although over coming decades Britain’s net bill would be lower than the €100bn upfront settlement, the more stringent approach to Britain’s outstanding obligations significantly increases the estimated €60bn charge mentioned by Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president.

It also reflects the steadily hardening position of many EU member states, which have abandoned early reservations about the bill’s political risks to pile on demands that will help to plug a Brexit-related hole in the bloc’s common budget.

Paris and Warsaw have pushed for the inclusion of post-Brexit annual farm payments, while Berlin is against granting Britain a share of EU assets.

Estimates of Britain’s Brexit bill are highly variable because they include assumptions on Britain’s exit date, its proper share of contributions, UK receipts such as its budget rebate or EU investment spending, and the type of liabilities it is expected to honour. European diplomats consider this flexibility as helpful in reaching a deal.

The hefty bill represents one of the biggest early obstacles to a smooth Brexit. To the alarm of the EU side, Theresa May bluntly rejected the notion of an exit bill at a recent dinner with Mr Juncker, saying any financial terms would be tied to securing a trade deal by 2019. On Tuesday, she promised to be a “bloody difficult woman” in talks.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, has said no figure will be set until the end of the Brexit process and payments could be staggered. But he wants Britain to agree a methodology before trade talks can begin, including a definition of EU liabilities the UK would be expected to share. He will unveil a draft negotiating mandate — including the Brexit bill assumptions — on Wednesday.

€82bn-€109bn
Bruegel think-tank estimates of the upfront payment Britain would need to make
As well as adding €10bn-€15bn of mainly farm- related payments, the commission’s tougher approach denies London a share of assets such as buildings. Significantly, it requires upfront payment for contingent guarantees and loans to countries such as Ukraine and Portugal, with Britain being reimbursed as the loans are repaid.

According to FT calculations, this brings the upfront gross settlement demand to approximately €91bn-€113bn, depending on how Britain’s share is calculated. Over a period of a decade or more, this would be reduced in net terms to roughly €55bn-€75bn as Britain received its share of EU spending and repaid EU loans.

Using similar assumptions, the Bruegel think-tank estimates that Britain would make an upfront payment of €82bn-€109bn, which would net out to €42bn-€65bn over the long term. Compared with the FT and some commission officials, Bruegel uses a higher estimate of expected EU spending in the UK and a lower estimate of net pension liabilities.

Zvolt Darvas, a senior fellow at Bruegel, said the EU’s latest approach clearly represented “the most extensive possible liabilities for the net bill”.

“It requires the UK to make a large upfront payment that is even bigger than the long- term net bill,” he added.

The commission has never published its preferred methodology. But in early discussions with member states it took a more conservative view of UK liabilities. The FT previously calculated the figure to be €40bn-€60bn in net terms — a number that corresponds to Mr Barnier’s informal estimates shared with member states.

This gave Britain a share of EU assets such as buildings, and included only what it sees as legally binding commitments to investment programmes — such as infrastructure projects in eastern Europe — running over multiple years.

However, during recent private deliberations, France and Poland insisted that EU liabilities worth €183bn, covering annual farm subsidies and administrative costs, should also be added to the tally.

Diplomats say this is reflected in the EU’s negotiating guidelines, which refer to “a single financial settlement including issues resulting from the MFF [the EU’s long-term budget]”. Greece asked that the UK also honour political commitments it made to fund refugee programmes in Turkey.

At the request of France, Germany and several other member states, the commission also abandoned its initial plans to offer the UK a share of assets, worth between €3bn and €9bn, depending on the definition used.

On the issue of contingent liabilities, Mr Barnier’s negotiating mandate is expected to require upfront payment to cover loans or guarantees, which will be “returned in accordance with the maturity of the underlying loans”.

The European Investment Bank is excluded from the FT calculations. However, the EU is insisting Britain would have a claim only on its paid-in capital, rather than a share of the bank’s €63.5bn in own funds that Britain will demand.
Reply With Quote
  #8928  
Old 03.05.2017, 09:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,368
Groaned at 592 Times in 449 Posts
Thanked 13,918 Times in 5,410 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Wow, they are really trying it on now... no way should Britain be strong-armed and pay that.
Reply With Quote
  #8929  
Old 03.05.2017, 09:43
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,104
Groaned at 80 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 1,103 Times in 655 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Brexis is meant as a lesson for other EU member states. But this attitude clearly shows that Brexit is long overdue - should have happened before it was so disruptive.
Euro currency adoption is a ratchet mechanism that makes leaving EU impossible, even when facing war-like recession. UK citizens should thank their politicians for avoiding it.
I wonder if any other considerable-size country ever adopts the euro currency after the Greek and Brexit lessons.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #8930  
Old 03.05.2017, 09:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,556 Times in 6,310 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Wow, they are really trying it on now... no way should Britain be strong-armed and pay that.
Divorces are always more expensive than one thinks.
It was always naive to think we could walk away free; nevertheless I hope the UK negotiators can achieve a good solution.

So it will be some long time before the NHS see their 350M per week
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #8931  
Old 03.05.2017, 09:59
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,009
Groaned at 95 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 4,056 Times in 1,972 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Brexis is meant as a lesson for other EU member states. But this attitude clearly shows that Brexit is long overdue - should have happened before it was so disruptive.
Euro currency adoption is a ratchet mechanism that makes leaving EU impossible, even when facing war-like recession. UK citizens should thank their politicians for avoiding it.
I wonder if any other considerable-size country ever adopts the euro currency after the Greek and Brexit lessons.
Post Greece - Estonia in 2011, Latvia in 2014 and Lithuania in 2015. 6 million people between them so not exactly insignificant.
Reply With Quote
  #8932  
Old 03.05.2017, 10:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,556 Times in 6,310 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Brexis is meant as a lesson for other EU member states. But this attitude clearly shows that Brexit is long overdue - should have happened before it was so disruptive.
Euro currency adoption is a ratchet mechanism that makes leaving EU impossible, even when facing war-like recession. UK citizens should thank their politicians for avoiding it.
I wonder if any other considerable-size country ever adopts the euro currency after the Greek and Brexit lessons.
The basic problem for Greece was that they borrowed money they could not afford to pay back plus they used the money to fund a too generous social structure that was not sustainable.

The euro was not a primary cause.
Reply With Quote
  #8933  
Old 03.05.2017, 11:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,368
Groaned at 592 Times in 449 Posts
Thanked 13,918 Times in 5,410 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Divorces are always more expensive than one thinks.
It was always naive to think we could walk away free; nevertheless I hope the UK negotiators can achieve a good solution.

So it will be some long time before the NHS see their 350M per week
The figures seem arbitrary and designed to shock and intimidate, rather than have real legitimate basis. While that may also seem similar to a divorce, I think in the end this strategy may instead work against the EU, as for all their bluster and scaremongering the UK is still a strategically significant ally. https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...ty-cooperation

Quote:
"The UK is arguably the EU’s strongest defence power. It is one of only two member states possessing ‘full-spectrum’ military capabilities (including a nuclear deterrent) and one of only five spending 2% of GDP on defence. It also holds a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and has the largest military budget within the EU"
I predict that Jean Claude Drunkard is going to end up with no friends by the time this Brexit is done, because I cannot see Germany and France standing by him while he continues to embarass himself so childishly in public. The man was never designed to hold a seat of such power, he is the Sepp Blatter of the EU and needs to go asap so that grown adults can handle the negotiations.
Reply With Quote
  #8934  
Old 03.05.2017, 11:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,833
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,697 Times in 1,479 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

See this article:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...a-1145648.html
Reply With Quote
  #8935  
Old 03.05.2017, 11:22
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,756
Groaned at 498 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 7,890 Times in 3,093 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Divorces are always more expensive than one thinks.
It was always naive to think we could walk away free; nevertheless I hope the UK negotiators can achieve a good solution.

So it will be some long time before the NHS see their 350M per week
Can you imagine if it was a net receiver from the EU budget that was leaving? Do you think they would be lumped with a huge bill?

The UK should pay what is legally owed. Likewise, the UK should be entitled to their share of EU assets. Anything else shouldn't enter into negotiations.

With leaks like this, which incidentally came from the Junkers side, there will never be an environment for constructive talks.
Reply With Quote
  #8936  
Old 03.05.2017, 12:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,032
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,987 Times in 10,887 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Divorces are always more expensive than one thinks.
It was always naive to think we could walk away free; nevertheless I hope the UK negotiators can achieve a good solution.

So it will be some long time before the NHS see their 350M per week
Indeed, here is a document that helps understand the issues around that 'divorce' settlement:

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default...ill_3feb17.pdf

We all know that if you want to quit your Gym membership early, or a car lease, or loan, or mortgage- there are penalties to pay. This needs of course to be clear from the start of the contract - it was.
Reply With Quote
  #8937  
Old 03.05.2017, 12:13
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 179 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 17,584 Times in 7,462 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The basic problem for Greece was that they borrowed money they could not afford to pay back plus they used the money to fund a too generous social structure that was not sustainable.

The euro was not a primary cause.
Without the Euro they could have balanced that, at least short-termish, by firing up the printing presses and printing their way out of debt, as they did so often in the past.

They failed to understand that having a stable currency comes with duties as well as priviledges.
Reply With Quote
  #8938  
Old 03.05.2017, 12:16
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Can you imagine if it was a net receiver from the EU budget that was leaving? Do you think they would be lumped with a huge bill?

The UK should pay what is legally owed.
Yes
Quote:
View Post
Likewise, the UK should be entitled to their share of EU assets.
I believe that is called Britain. I believe Nigel Farage has been stockpiling stationary too, so really, it is a big win for the UK.
Reply With Quote
  #8939  
Old 03.05.2017, 12:24
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,918
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,539 Times in 5,936 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Guess the realities of a Brexit shaped budget hole are starting to become apparent.

Brussels hoists gross Brexit ‘bill’ to €100bn
Watching the TV news channels today, the impression I get is that the Financial Times journalist dreamt up the possibility that Poland and France will force the UK to pay for their farm subsidies over the next 10 years.

FAKE NEWS! (More from the British press, that profits from selling lies)

Nothing of the sort has come out of Brussels, in fact Davies, the UK minister for Brexit, has stated today they still have no figures at all. The EU will indeed present a bill to the UK, which Brussels insists the UK must pay. But how much, and when, has not been announced.
Reply With Quote
  #8940  
Old 03.05.2017, 12:26
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 179 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 17,584 Times in 7,462 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Is history also being rewritten now?
The EU invented the Internet, and not only will they insist on making the UK pay for it, but the UK won't have any internet post Brexit.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0