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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #9461  
Old 04.08.2017, 17:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But none of this takes away from the fact that it is heading in that direction and without the U.K. sorting it out it will happen. Even EasyJet are starting to look at their corporate structure as unlike Ryan Air they can't simply move aircraft to a EU location because of the ownership requirements.
Talking nonsense again & need to do some research....

Easyjet will over 50% EU controlled after Brexit. Stelios has 2 passports........ Easy jet already has a EU solution.
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  #9462  
Old 04.08.2017, 17:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Another explanation from the FT:

https://www.ft.com/content/57c0c01c-...f-061b01e23655
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  #9463  
Old 04.08.2017, 17:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But none of this takes away from the fact that it is heading in that direction and without the U.K. sorting it out it will happen. Even EasyJet are starting to look at their corporate structure as unlike Ryan Air they can't simply move aircraft to a EU location because of the ownership requirements.
EZS seems to do well enough.

And remember the time that Easyjet couldn't land in Paris. and then they ordered some new Airbuses rather than whatever it was they had before and hey presto, landing rights were no longer a problem.

The business world is very interlinked. Everybody has some leverage to squeeze everybody else's balls. It's all very well to threaten people, but we all know those threats are rarely acted on as people are afraid the other side might squeeze back.
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  #9464  
Old 04.08.2017, 17:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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EZS seems to do well enough.
EZS are Swiss and therefore already covered by the bilaterals.

EZY are in the process of shifting a chunk of their operations to Vienna. A few more jobs gone from the UK. They are also looking at their ownership and what they can do about it.
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  #9465  
Old 04.08.2017, 17:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Alan Partridge will return to the BBC as the ‘voice of Brexit’ in 2018

I'm not too familiar with Alan Partridge but any satire about Brexit when it seems to be in so short supply can't be a bad thing. It's the politicians rather than the voters that should be satire's main material, I think. If only Spitting Image was still around.
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  #9466  
Old 04.08.2017, 17:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Talking nonsense again & need to do some research....

Easyjet will over 50% EU controlled after Brexit. Stelios has 2 passports........ Easy jet already has a EU solution.
Stelios and his family only own 34%. EU ownership post Brexit is about 49% so not quite.

Although Ryanair would have more problems - EU ownership excluding UK is only 40%
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  #9467  
Old 04.08.2017, 18:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Stelios and his family only own 34%. EU ownership post Brexit is about 49% so not quite.

Although Ryanair would have more problems - EU ownership excluding UK is only 40%
Plenty of recordable stakes, just needs 1 investment house to move some of their stake to an EU fund, nobody will lose any sleep.

Probably make sense for German manufactured build some more cars in the UK, BMW already do.
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  #9468  
Old 04.08.2017, 20:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Easyjet will over 50% EU controlled after Brexit. Stelios has 2 passports........ Easy jet already has a EU solution.
I did say they were looking at their capital structure!!!
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  #9469  
Old 04.08.2017, 20:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And remember the time that Easyjet couldn't land in Paris. and then they ordered some new Airbuses rather than whatever it was they had before and hey presto, landing rights were no longer a problem.

The business world is very interlinked. Everybody has some leverage to squeeze everybody else's balls. It's all very well to threaten people, but we all know those threats are rarely acted on as people are afraid the other side might squeeze back.
Except we're not talking about a little business deal... we're talking world wide agreements on air transport, agreements to which the U.K. will no longer be a party and need to negotiate for themselves. And a European market to which they no longer have access, controlled by 27 member states who are determined to hold the U.K. account.

I think the wake up call for BREXIT will be a lot sooner than March 2019.
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  #9470  
Old 04.08.2017, 20:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And what about Euratom? I would have potential delays in cancer treatment would have got people going...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...he-eu-40571853
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  #9471  
Old 09.08.2017, 16:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

PoliticsHome: Brexit is a 'catastrophe', says David Davis' former chief of staff

"Brexit is a “catastrophe” and “sensible” MPs should form a new party to reverse it, a former adviser to George Osborne and David Davis has said.

In reference to the new party, James Chapman singled out pro-European Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs such as Chuka Umunna, Sir Vince Cable, Anna Soubry, Nicky Morgan and Nicholas Soames.

The former Daily Mail journalist also said it was “well past time” for “sensible journos” on Brexit-supporting newspapers to admit leaving the bloc will “destroy lives of many of their readers”.

...he suggested some newspaper editors had supported leaving the EU as a way of exacting revenge on David Cameron over the Leveson Inquiry into the press."
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  #9472  
Old 09.08.2017, 16:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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PoliticsHome: Brexit is a 'catastrophe', says David Davis' former chief of staff

"Brexit is a “catastrophe” and “sensible” MPs should form a new party to reverse it, a former adviser to George Osborne and David Davis has said.

In reference to the new party, James Chapman singled out pro-European Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs such as Chuka Umunna, Sir Vince Cable, Anna Soubry, Nicky Morgan and Nicholas Soames.

The former Daily Mail journalist also said it was “well past time” for “sensible journos” on Brexit-supporting newspapers to admit leaving the bloc will “destroy lives of many of their readers”.

...he suggested some newspaper editors had supported leaving the EU as a way of exacting revenge on David Cameron over the Leveson Inquiry into the press."
I like how he wants a newly formed party to be called the Democrats. And then have them try and overturn a democratic referendum result.
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  #9473  
Old 09.08.2017, 16:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why wouldn't you still be able to fly to Luton? People fly between non EU countries all the time, do you think they'll stop flights to the UK just because they leave the EU?

A little bit of a a hold isn't going to make that much difference to your journey even if you go by train or car now is it?

There will undoubtably be changes once Brexit comes into force but I think yo're being a bit over dramatic here.
They fly between those non-EU countries because there are bilateral or multilateral international agreements regulating just that. See here for the Swiss non-EU agreements on international traffic, including point 0.748 on air traffic and related issues e.g. Basel-Mülhausen airport.

In order to operate in a given country, an airline must be licensed (commercial of transportation of people as well as transport in general typically require such). Every country wants to protect its own airlines from discrimination abroad so the typical framework is provided by a bilateral or multilateral international treaty based on (more or less) reciprocity. Additionally, in order to land the airline must have landing rights issued by the respective airport.

So it takes:
1) international treaty, a general framework
2) based on that an operating license for the airline
3) based on that landing rights by the respective airport for a given airline

Due to Brexit the current underlying base will indeed disappear, the question is what it will be replaced with, and when it will be clear what it looks like. This is a real issue because, based on their current positions, the UK won't accept the ECJ as final arbiter whereas the EU will of course demand exactly that so there's no "keep things as they are". Unless, that is, TM once again turns her flag in a different direction.

Air transport is an indispensable part of the speedy supply chains. It's used for many types of retail goods, but even more importantly it's indispesible for just-in-time and comparable production concepts. Lacking that whole production chains will be slowed or halted altogether (remember the Japanese car makers demands published a little less than a year ago).

So no, it probably won't come to that simply because the stakes are too high. But that doesn't mean there will be no consequences, no shakeups.
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  #9474  
Old 09.08.2017, 16:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I like how he wants a newly formed party to be called the Democrats. And then have them try and overturn a democratic referendum result.
I'ts a bit like the US where the "Republicans" want to turn a democracy into a white fascist dictatorship .
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  #9475  
Old 09.08.2017, 16:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'ts a bit like the US where the "Republicans" want to turn a democracy into a white fascist dictatorship .
White fascist Republicans? Like this one?

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  #9476  
Old 09.08.2017, 20:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I like how he wants a newly formed party to be called the Democrats. And then have them try and overturn a democratic referendum result.
But that is the key point of a democracy "no decision is set in stone" they are all reversible by democratic process or can be changed!
For example, every few years UK democratically votes and switches Government from one political party to another!
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  #9477  
Old 09.08.2017, 20:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I like how he wants a newly formed party to be called the Democrats. And then have them try and overturn a democratic referendum result.
Not really anything democratic about it. There's a big difference between Democracy and just holding a vote.

For starters, the information provided to voters was either scant, misleading, or an outright lie, so there was no informed public.

Second, there were not just questions about that vote, there were questions about the legitimacy of the elections which brought the people who brought the referendum, some of which, IIRC, are still underway. So there are questions about the process.

Finally, as Marton pointed out, democracy doesn't mean 'too late, you voted, it's decided'. The landscape changed before the vote was even complete, suddenly very real impacts were in play that no one considered, the leaders who championed the referendum suddenly left, and suddenly the promises made disappeared. It wasn't a referendum, it was a political sham vote for a non-existent policy.

If that wasn't enough for a renewed referendum, how about the ongoing dysfunction and the government's inability to hold a position?

The whole thing was grossly undemocratic. But even if you believe it's squeaky clean, what is undemocratic about holding another vote to double-check that we really want to do something so incredibly stupid and harmful?
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  #9478  
Old 09.08.2017, 20:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So no, it probably won't come to that simply because the stakes are too high. But that doesn't mean there will be no consequences, no shakeups.
But the problem is that the EU can't do anything about the external agreements that form part of the package. And while the UK are running around trying to prepare for trade deals, there seem to be no movement at all on fight agreements etc....
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  #9479  
Old 09.08.2017, 21:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I like how he wants a newly formed party to be called the Democrats. And then have them try and overturn a democratic referendum result.
And we're off once again.... The UK has a sovereign parliament, or at least the like to think they have.... accordingly a referenda can only every be advisory no matter what the outcome. So it foreseen that the outcome of any GE is a mandate to change everything if the government of the day wishes. That is how the UK democracy works.

Next the nonsense about not being able to change a decision made... if one were to follow your logic then they should never have been allowed to make the decision to leave, since there already have been a democratic decision to join and furthermore to continue committing the country to ever closer union by the sovereign parliament.

You can argue one way when it suits you the the other when it does not.

However having a second referendum on it would be a joke, because legally there is no way back no matter what the politicians say. Any EU citizen could take an action to the ECJ requiring that the UK completes the process.
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  #9480  
Old 09.08.2017, 23:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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However having a second referendum on it would be a joke, because legally there is no way back no matter what the politicians say. Any EU citizen could take an action to the ECJ requiring that the UK completes the process.
Yep, well and truly boned.
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