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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #10041  
Old 29.10.2017, 13:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the Brexit negotiations, the EU are insisting that the Brexit bill should be finalised first.

However, the European Investment Bank (EIB) will not return all the UK assets until 2054,

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41774817
Mentioned in the article is an unexpected Brexit side effect "One UK housing association, Stonewater, said it may build around 300 fewer homes because its application to the EIB for £100m (at low rates) to build new properties had ground to a halt.
Its executive director John Bruton told the programme: "The Bank has been waiting for assurances from the UK government before the application can be progressed.""
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  #10042  
Old 29.10.2017, 13:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris Johnson has unilaterally declared to EU citizens living in the UK that “your rights will be protected whatever happens” after Brexit.

Source

Another Boris promise that he is not in a position to deliver; shades of NHS
Just goes to show that the UK government can say anything and you Remainers won't be happy.

BTW, UK economy grew by more than expected last quarter. Didn't mention anything on that did you?

p.s. I don't think that the difference in economy growth in the range of +/- 0.1% hardly news worthy in relation to Brexit, but Remainers seem to think it is.
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  #10043  
Old 29.10.2017, 15:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just goes to show that the UK government can say anything and you Remainers won't be happy.
On balance, anyone who is happy with a cabinet member brazenly making wild promises that he has no right or authority to make needs to give their head a wobble.

Brexiters seem to be happy with unfounded "lip service" type outbursts but that's probably what got them into this hole in the first place.
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  #10044  
Old 29.10.2017, 15:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And in the meantime, the refusal from GVT via Amber Rudd, to give EU residents in the UK the right to stay beyond Brexit also means 490.000 UK retirees in the EU are still being used as pawns- with their right to stay and reciprocal healthcare coming to an end on 1st of March 2019.

With pension values dropping due to falling Sterling, and the prospect of having to pay massive private healthcare schemes- in their 60s, 70s and 80s with pre-existing conditions- imagine what will happen even if only 20% are forced to return without funds (houses bought in deepest France and Italy being totally un-saleable at the moment and all savings tied into said property) - on the NHS, housing, social care and in many case OAP residential care.

Do listen to those trendy Lefties discussing the issues here:

https://www.facebook.com/FullEnglish...8915691949099/
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  #10045  
Old 29.10.2017, 16:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And in the meantime, the refusal from GVT via Amber Rudd, to give EU residents in the UK the right to stay beyond Brexit also means 490.000 UK retirees in the EU are still being used as pawns- with their right to stay and reciprocal healthcare coming to an end on 1st of March 2019.

With pension values dropping due to falling Sterling, and the prospect of having to pay massive private healthcare schemes- in their 60s, 70s and 80s with pre-existing conditions- imagine what will happen even if only 20% are forced to return without funds (houses bought in deepest France and Italy being totally un-saleable at the moment and all savings tied into said property) - on the NHS, housing, social care and in many case OAP residential care.

Do listen to those trendy Lefties discussing the issues here:

https://www.facebook.com/FullEnglish...8915691949099/
The UK is very generous as you should know, whilst the UK pays your Swiss health insurance, A Swiss pensioner living in the UK has to pay 400 CHF a month Swiss health insurance if they live in the UK. (no free NHS for Swiss pensioners in the UK). The idea is reciprocal health agreement, there is no reciprocation whatsoever.
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  #10046  
Old 29.10.2017, 17:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK is very generous as you should know, whilst the UK pays your Swiss health insurance, A Swiss pensioner living in the UK has to pay 400 CHF a month Swiss health insurance if they live in the UK. (no free NHS for Swiss pensioners in the UK). The idea is reciprocal health agreement, there is no reciprocation whatsoever.
Link please.

No free treatment for us UK pensioners resident in CH- we have 300CHF franchise and have to pay 10% up to 700CHF. My knee replacement cost me therefore 1000CHF. So will the second one in March next year.

My comment however was about UK residents in other EU countries- as there private insurances do NOT have to take on anyone with pre-exisiting conditions- which is key for older retirees in particular.

From Gov.uk: new regs from 2015.

Within the UK, free NHS treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. It is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, national insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK.

As is the case already, most people, who live or work in another EEA country or Switzerland will continue to get free NHS care using a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) issued by the country they live in. This means the NHS can reclaim healthcare costs from the original country of residence.

Perhaps you are confused about retirees who have taken early retirement, and are not yet recipients of State Pension. We were in that position when we first moved here in 2009 - OH 63 and me 58. We had to pay Swiss Insurance until OH was in receipt of official UK state pension at 65 (I was then covered as his dependent.


Moreover, under new regs since 2015, UK retireees in EU and Switzerand now have free access to NHS UK, even if resident in other EU country or Switzerland- which was not the case before unless for emergencies using EHIC.

Last edited by Odile; 29.10.2017 at 18:02.
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  #10047  
Old 29.10.2017, 21:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK is very generous as you should know, whilst the UK pays your Swiss health insurance, A Swiss pensioner living in the UK has to pay 400 CHF a month Swiss health insurance if they live in the UK. (no free NHS for Swiss pensioners in the UK). The idea is reciprocal health agreement, there is no reciprocation whatsoever.
It is nothing to do with the UK being generous or not, it is an EU/EEA/CH requirement. The state that pays the largest proportion of your pension is responsible for your your health insurance, unless you are also a citizen for the state you reside in. Thus UK pensioners are treated if they could access the NHS and Swiss pensioners as if they were in Switzerland.

If I were for instance to retire to another EU/EEA country I'd have pay Swiss health insurance as most of my pension will be paid from Switzerland, but if I retire to Ireland I don't have to as I'm an Irish citizen. Have been check this out as I'm getting to that point....
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  #10048  
Old 29.10.2017, 21:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I have dual nationality (born and bred swiss) but have no pension at all in Switzerland as I worked all my adult life, and therefore contributed, in the UK.
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  #10049  
Old 29.10.2017, 21:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is nothing to do with the UK being generous or not, it is an EU/EEA/CH requirement. The state that pays the largest proportion of your pension is responsible for your your health insurance, unless you are also a citizen for the state you reside in. Thus UK pensioners are treated if they could access the NHS and Swiss pensioners as if they were in Switzerland.

If I were for instance to retire to another EU/EEA country I'd have pay Swiss health insurance as most of my pension will be paid from Switzerland, but if I retire to Ireland I don't have to as I'm an Irish citizen. Have been check this out as I'm getting to that point....
Yes it is not clear and self evident. I am dual English and Swiss and considered retiring in Germany but "The state that pays the largest proportion of your pension is responsible for your your health insurance" gets complicated with exchange rates to take into account etc.
Overall a good solution seems to be to live in Switzerland with their low mortgage rates and taxes but to shop in Germany, I am only 3 Km from the border.

For example, when I opt to not pay income tax in UK on my UK pension but to pay in Switzerland instead I see a financial saving despite I lose the UK personal allowance
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  #10050  
Old 29.10.2017, 21:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I have dual nationality (born and bred swiss) but have no pension at all in Switzerland as I worked all my adult life, and therefore contributed, in the UK.
Does this not apply to Swiss nationals then?

"Persons who draw a pension from an EU/EFTA state but do not draw a pension from Switzerland (form E 121 or portable document S1 issued by the health insurance abroad)."

https://www.kvg.org/en/overview-_con...2BEA7AFC3A0983
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  #10051  
Old 29.10.2017, 22:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

A number of newspapers are reporting Theresa May’s £1bn deal with the DUP is held back as Northern Ireland talks falter

What a f##kup this whole Brexit business is??

I have no clue what to comment!!
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  #10052  
Old 29.10.2017, 22:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Yes, Medea, as I am British too- and my teacher's and OAP pensions are solely from the UK and I am not entitled to a Swiss pension. I lived and worked in the UK from the age of 19, when I left school - British nationality from age 21 - UK Degree and taught in UK schools.

Still have to contribute up to 1000 CHF per year for medical treatment. We have to pay for everything up front, then it goes through Lamal in Solothurn and we get reimbursed minus the 1000CHF. But only from UK compulsory pensionable age at 65, not if you retire early on professional pension (as OH did for medical reasons- we had to have Swiss insurance until he got to 65).

Last edited by Odile; 29.10.2017 at 23:07.
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  #10053  
Old 30.10.2017, 11:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Becomes more and more sordid by the day. Not surprised really- but seriously worrying. When UKIP members whistleblow about their own campaign via Farage - then you know things are seriously amiss.

Bannon and Breitbart + Farage hey, who would have thunk it

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard
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  #10054  
Old 30.10.2017, 11:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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houses bought in deepest France and Italy being totally un-saleable at the moment and all savings tied into said property
I can't speak for Italy or France but I have an acquaintance who is an estate agent in Spain and she says Brits are still buying there and in the more desirable parts house prices are even climbing as if the crisis never happened.

The Spanish government has even made statements to the effcts that British expats will be able to stay, regardless of the outcome of the Brexit talks.

And they'd be stupid not to. The tourism and real estate markets on the costas would collapse if the Brits were to leave. Hundreds of thousands of Spaniards have also benefitted from the rise in the real estate market caused by Brits investing there. And many have jobs related to tourism, construction etc. Would Spain stab its own people in the back to make Brussels happy?

As for Catalonia, what will happen there is anybody's guess. But they'd be stupid if they slammed the door on expats and tourism.

But in Bulgaria, yeah, I've heard that Brits are packing their stuff and selling their houses.
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  #10055  
Old 30.10.2017, 11:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Experts are out of fashion apparently- but I really do believe this one is worth listening too:

https://www.facebook.com/FullEnglish...9550311885637/

As for houses in rural expat France- no they are not selling- too much uncertainty on exchange rate, access to healthcare, etc, RyanAir flights to South West or not, etc, etc,. Same in many parts of Spain. It is all very nice for the Spanish GVT to say expats will be able to stay- but if the £ continues to drop, and reciprocal healthcare agreements are cancelled- few will be able to.
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  #10056  
Old 30.10.2017, 12:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As for houses in rural expat France- no they are not selling- too much uncertainty on exchange rate, access to healthcare, etc, RyanAir flights to South West or not, etc, etc,. Same in many parts of Spain. It is all very nice for the Spanish GVT to say expats will be able to stay- but if the £ continues to drop, and reciprocal healthcare agreements are cancelled- few will be able to.
Yes and no.

One of the reasons that Spain is so attractive for Brits, apart from the beaches, tapas, sangia and sun of course, is that they can actually stretch their money there quite a but further than they can in the UK.

For the reverse to become true, there would have to be a far more massive shift in exchange rates. And from what others have been saying, costs of living in the UK are actually likely to rise, not fall, making it even more difficult and unlikely for Spain to become more costly than the UK.

in other words, you can't have it both ways. You can't say expats are going to return to the Uk in droves because they can't afford to live in Euroland, while at the same timke saying that the cost of living in the Uk is going to skyrocket to the point that people will have to leave.
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  #10057  
Old 30.10.2017, 12:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes and no.

One of the reasons that Spain is so attractive for Brits, apart from the beaches, tapas, sangia and sun of course, is that they can actually stretch their money there quite a but further than they can in the UK.

For the reverse to become true, there would have to be a far more massive shift in exchange rates. And from what others have been saying, costs of living in the UK are actually likely to rise, not fall, making it even more difficult and unlikely for Spain to become more costly than the UK.

in other words, you can't have it both ways. You can't say expats are going to return to the Uk in droves because they can't afford to live in Euroland, while at the same timke saying that the cost of living in the Uk is going to skyrocket to the point that people will have to leave.
For the large UK pensioner population in the EU the cost of healthcare could easily become a significant issue which might tip the balance. Doesn't need any FX or cost-of-living shifts, just a change in coverage.
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Old 30.10.2017, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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On balance, anyone who is happy with a cabinet member brazenly making wild promises that he has no right or authority to make needs to give their head a wobble.

Brexiters seem to be happy with unfounded "lip service" type outbursts but that's probably what got them into this hole in the first place.
What can the government do on citizens rights that will make Remainers happy though?
  1. Say they're using EU citizens rights as a bargaining tool in the negotiations - Remainer "HOW DARE YOU USE PEOPLE AS PAWNS IN THE BREXIT NEGOTIATIONS!"
  2. Say nothing - Remainer "THE UNCERTAINTY IS UNFAIR FOR THESE POOR PEOPLE, TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON!"
  3. Say EU citizens rights are secured - Remainer "BULLSHIT! WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU!"

See how it works yet?
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  #10059  
Old 30.10.2017, 14:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What can the government do on citizens rights that will make Remainers happy though?
  1. Say they're using EU citizens rights as a bargaining tool in the negotiations - Remainer "HOW DARE YOU USE PEOPLE AS PAWNS IN THE BREXIT NEGOTIATIONS!"
  2. Say nothing - Remainer "THE UNCERTAINTY IS UNFAIR FOR THESE POOR PEOPLE, TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON!"
  3. Say EU citizens rights are secured - Remainer "BULLSHIT! WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU!"

See how it works yet?
Well, having someone that carries the authority to make the claims and to make them consistently would be a start because you can have announcements of all three scenarios in one week with Boris, Dervid Dervis and Teresa May who are clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet.

That's probably how it should work, right? Anything else might be seen as arse-from-elbow incompetency which tends to make people nervous. Although from what you seem to be saying, the utter shambles is not making Brexiters nervous, right?
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Old 30.10.2017, 14:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Confirmation - Brexiters ARE thick:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...emain-pollster
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