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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #10281  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As the Republicans in the US are demonstrating that despite their Congress majority and a Republican President politicians rarely have the skills needed to actually get things done!

For example, a list of key political skills;
Writing and Research Skills. ...
Public Speaking and Presentation Skills. ...
Knowledge of Social Media. ...
Understanding Your Audience. ...
Crisis Management and Problem Solving.

This is why many people thought that Trump as a business man would be someone who could actually make positive changes.

Consequently it is no surprise that UK politicians in the Brexit negotiations are failing; maybe they should have given lead roles in these Brexit negotiations to the Civil Service?
If you care to look at the text of the Investigatory Powers Act *, you will see what a mess they have made of it. I've read quite a few pieces of legislation in my time (mainly to do with general business and taxation) but never come across anything so complicated to read. Perhaps that's the intention.

* See Can GCHQ order techies to work as govt snoops? Experts fear: 'Yes' and the linked Act Section 190 for an example.

I really do wonder if we are seeing the end result of the dropping of the Classics in education here.
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  #10282  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Oh, and if anyone is wondering why Mr Ming is so upset, here's why:

https://ec.europa.eu/avservices/vide...INT&sublg=none
https://twitter.com/eu_eeas/status/933657281979404288

Remember all those Leave lies? The side of the Bus? Well here is what chief Remain campaigner Nick Clegg had to say on the prospect of a European Army:

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  #10283  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Britain must accept higher levels of immigration from India if it hopes to sign a free trade agreement after Brexit, a senior Indian diplomat has warned, as he predicted it could take up to a decade to secure the deal.

Source

No surprise really?
Good. Shared history, common language. Just send a CV first.
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  #10284  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Good. Shared history, common language. Just send a CV first.
There is an implicit assumption here that a new trade agreement would only enable immigration by skilled immigrants.
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  #10285  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Consequently it is no surprise that UK politicians in the Brexit negotiations are failing; maybe they should have given lead roles in these Brexit negotiations to the Civil Service?
The reason they're failing has little to do with the Government, and everything to do with the fact they're dealing with an organisation that is incapable of negotiating. All they can do is make demands.
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  #10286  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There is an implicit assumption here that a new trade agreement would only enable immigration by skilled immigrants.
It will. You really think the UK would allow free movement between India and the UK?
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  #10287  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It will. You really think the UK would allow free movement between India and the UK?
Without free movement then there will be no trade agreement, May learnt this last November see here, "Immigration dominates Theresa May’s trade mission to India".
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  #10288  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The reason they're failing has little to do with the Government, and everything to do with the fact they're dealing with an organisation that is incapable of negotiating. All they can do is make demands.
So far the EU has negotiated trade agreements with some 80 countries so your claim that the EU is an organisation that is incapable of negotiating is a classic example of laughable prejudice and disinformation
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  #10289  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Without free movement then there will be no trade agreement, May learnt this last November see here.
Let's see what happens when they get down to negotiating shall we? Free movement will never be on the table. Not when there's a population deficit of 1.25 billion. I sometimes wonder on what planet you live on.
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  #10290  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So far the EU has negotiated trade agreements with some 80 countries so your claim that the EU is an organisation that is incapable of negotiating is a classic example of laughable prejudice and disinformation
Oh yes, how could I forget those economic power houses of Tunisia, Lebanon and Chile? Where's the agreements with China? Japan? USA? Brazil? Australia? Russia? India? Basically, the countries where it's really worth making a trade agreement with?
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  #10291  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh yes, how could I forget those economic power houses of Tunisia, Lebanon and Chile? Where's the agreements with China? Japan? USA? Brazil? Australia? Russia? India? Basically, the countries where it's really worth making a trade agreement with?
You agree then the EU successfully negotiated Trade agreements with 80 countries so so your claim that the EU is an organisation that is incapable of negotiating is nonsense?
Perhaps you are able to explain the relevance of the three countries that you quoted out of the 80 existing agreements.
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  #10292  
Old 23.11.2017, 23:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Let's see what happens when they get down to negotiating shall we? Free movement will never be on the table. Not when there's a population deficit of 1.25 billion. I sometimes wonder on what planet you live on.
I saw what happened when they got down to negotiating, look at the link I quoted!
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  #10293  
Old 24.11.2017, 09:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Britain must accept higher levels of immigration from India if it hopes to sign a free trade agreement after Brexit, a senior Indian diplomat has warned, as he predicted it could take up to a decade to secure the deal.

Source

No surprise really?
... and now India is being irrational as well, just like the EU. Why does everybody have to be so mean? This is all so unfair!
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  #10294  
Old 24.11.2017, 09:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You agree then the EU successfully negotiated Trade agreements with 80 countries so so your claim that the EU is an organisation that is incapable of negotiating is nonsense?
Perhaps you are able to explain the relevance of the three countries that you quoted out of the 80 existing agreements.
Oh, I can name some more countries if you wish. The economic juggernauts of Algeria, Albania, Jordon, Moldova, Ukraine, the Faroe Islands... Look how good the EU is at negotiating with countries on when an even standing!

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I saw what happened when they got down to negotiating, look at the link I quoted!
But you keep reminding us the UK isn't allowed to negotiate trade agreements until they've left the EU. Make your mind up, won't you?
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  #10295  
Old 24.11.2017, 10:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Remember all those Leave lies? The side of the Bus? Well here is what chief Remain campaigner Nick Clegg had to say on the prospect of a European Army:
There are good proposals for greatly increased cooperation. That is not the same as a European army.

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But you keep reminding us the UK isn't allowed to negotiate trade agreements until they've left the EU. Make your mind up, won't you?
Nope. They can't conclude trade agreements. They can talk as much as they like - although when you watch Boris in action you might wish otherwise.
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  #10296  
Old 24.11.2017, 10:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh, I can name some more countries if you wish. The economic juggernauts of Algeria, Albania, Jordon, Moldova, Ukraine, the Faroe Islands... Look how good the EU is at negotiating with countries on when an even standing!
Cherry picking countries like these without any logical basis for your choices destroys your own argument?
You could mention countries like Canada, Norway and Switzerland but that would leave your argument in tatters?
Or for the coup de grâce look at the map below of EU trade agreements.

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But you keep reminding us the UK isn't allowed to negotiate trade agreements until they've left the EU. Make your mind up, won't you?
Actually it was May (you know, the PM) who trotted off to India to try to start Trade discussions, not me. Do try to keep up with the facts at the back of the class there
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  #10297  
Old 24.11.2017, 14:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There are good proposals for greatly increased cooperation. That is not the same as a European army.
Watch what happens next. And listen to the language of Federica Mogherini's speech. This should concern people. Aside from the fact it's compromises the neutrality of several EU States, no one has had a vote on whether they want this to happen.

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Cherry picking countries like these without any logical basis for your choices destroys your own argument?
You could mention countries like Canada, Norway and Switzerland but that would leave your argument in tatters?
Or for the coup de grâce look at the map below of EU trade agreements.
Oh wow, 3 countries in the top 30 ranked by GDP. And Norway and Switzerland are already part of EEA/EFTA. Your map proves nothing. In fact, of the World's top economies, the EU has an unratified agreement with Canada, that's it.

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  #10298  
Old 24.11.2017, 14:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Watch what happens next. And listen to the language of Federica Mogherini's speech. This should concern people. Aside from the fact it's compromises the neutrality of several EU States, no one has had a vote on whether they want this to happen.



Oh wow, 3 countries in the top 30 ranked by GDP. And Norway and Switzerland are already part of EEA/EFTA. Your map proves nothing. In fact, of the World's top economies, the EU has an unratified agreement with Canada, that's it.
Stop trying to move the goal posts again, GDP ranking is irrelevant.

My map proves the EU has agreements with over 80 countries so your claim the EU cannot negotiate is disproved.
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  #10299  
Old 24.11.2017, 14:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Stop trying to move the goal posts again, GDP ranking is irrelevant.
The Groundskeeper Returns!
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Old 24.11.2017, 15:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh wow, 3 countries in the top 30 ranked by GDP. And Norway and Switzerland are already part of EEA/EFTA. Your map proves nothing. In fact, of the World's top economies, the EU has an unratified agreement with Canada, that's it.
A small country is much more likely to want an agreement than a big one. How many of those countries have free trade agreements with each other, and which?
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