Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10701  
Old 20.12.2017, 14:20
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
That's what's been weird about all Barnier's comments in recent weeks. He's not yet even been given his orders from the EU council over their position for the next round of talks, which he'll have to adhere to. At the moment he's just going off on one.
Barnier, in typical EU delusion, believes himself to be more important than France and Germany. LOL.

Wankers. Just say "yeah, whatever".
Reply With Quote
  #10702  
Old 20.12.2017, 14:29
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,802
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 3,037 Times in 1,532 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I suspect Michel Barnier will end up eating these words. Of course the UK will end up getting offered a bespoke deal, it's ridiculous to suggest that there's only two off the shelf options available, neither of which are very suitable for the UK's largely service based economy. This is posturing and nothing more.
Ya Ya, just like you expected they'd do so well in the first round....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #10703  
Old 20.12.2017, 14:32
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Ya Ya, just like you expected they'd do so well in the first round....
You really reckon the UK will end up only getting offered either Canada or Norway model, take it or leave it?
Reply With Quote
  #10704  
Old 20.12.2017, 14:32
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,802
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 3,037 Times in 1,532 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Barnier, in typical EU delusion, believes himself to be more important than France and Germany. LOL.
Unlike Davis, Barnier tends to be very much on the money. 15mins to agree the scope of the first round, 14 seconds to agree the UK had not reached the required level, one meeting already on agreeing the trade terms and I say the 27 have already agreed what is going to be on offer.
Reply With Quote
  #10705  
Old 20.12.2017, 14:46
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

In other news the EU has triggered Article 7 against Poland today. Will be interesting to see what effect, if any, this will have. Poland's close Visegrád ties will ensure that nothing of any significance can really happen. It seems the EU is impotent to do anything more.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #10706  
Old 20.12.2017, 15:40
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,253
Groaned at 181 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 17,624 Times in 7,484 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
In other news the EU has triggered Article 7 against Poland today. Will be interesting to see what effect, if any, this will have. Poland's close Visegrád ties will ensure that nothing of any significance can really happen. It seems the EU is impotent to do anything more.
Actually not the EU but the Commission.

In the past, the EU was largely ruled by concensus, and debates sometimes raged on into mind-numbing pedantry just to make sure everybody was on board. Mrs Thatcher of course was among those who used that shamelessly to carve out special deals.

But for all the faults of the old style, the new style based on threats and bullying is far worse. Too much consensus can be a handicap, but too much authoritarianism is outright dangerous.

But that said, and for the reasons you state, this will probably come to nothing. So why is the EU sabre rattling over an empty threat? It's just one massive power trip. Maybe it's like in pre Bresit days. We can do what we want, they say. People will never get so fed up that they will want to leave.

Leaning from recent history is not really their thing.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #10707  
Old 20.12.2017, 15:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 5,153
Groaned at 160 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,569 Times in 3,373 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Last I read, which was several months ago now, was that it was going to a second referendum. Is that not happening now?
The definitive order has been given by the SVP delegates in June. Now the actual text (change of the constitution) needs to be worked out, then signatures collected, potentially a counterporposal by the Bundesrat, debate in both parliament chambers, and the vote.

This can easily take five or six years, no less than four, and that's assuming the Initiative is launched reasonably soon. Considering the SVP wouldn't have taken that decision had not the AUNS already decided on launching one (by which they would have seized the SVP's core and pet topic), they may indeed take their time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #10708  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:04
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
But that said, and for the reasons you state, this will probably come to nothing. So why is the EU sabre rattling over an empty threat? It's just one massive power trip. Maybe it's like in pre Bresit days. We can do what we want, they say. People will never get so fed up that they will want to leave.

Leaning from recent history is not really their thing.
Sounds like a stupid way for the EU to shoot itself in the foot again, but may they go at it nevertheless. They need unanimous consent for Article 7, which they will not get?

Uncle Donald was in Poland recently lending moral support. He said they were amazing people.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #10709  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:20
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like a stupid way for the EU to shoot itself in the foot again, but may they go at it nevertheless. They need unanimous consent for Article 7, which they will not get?

Uncle Donald was in Poland recently lending moral support. He said they were amazing people.
Why do you mislead EF members with statements that are not supported by facts?

A majority of four fifths of EU members is sufficient for Article 7(1)?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #10710  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:26
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Why do you mislead EF members with statements that are not supported by facts?

A majority of four fifths of EU members is sufficient for Article 7(1)?
Do you not see a question mark there? Let me show you:

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like a stupid way for the EU to shoot itself in the foot again, but may they go at it nevertheless. They need unanimous consent for Article 7, which they will not get?

Uncle Donald was in Poland recently lending moral support. He said they were amazing people.
In any case, its not like this will lead to anywhere but proving the EU's inadequacies again.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #10711  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:27
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,013
Groaned at 95 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 4,066 Times in 1,977 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Why do you mislead EF members with statements that are not supported by facts?

A majority of four fifths of EU members is sufficient for Article 7(1)?
Depends. 4/5ths for a warning but unanimous for suspension of voting rights.

"At least 22 of the 28 member states will now need to vote in favour of the commission’s proposal for a formal warning, but Brussels is confident it has the numbers.

The most serious sanction possible under article 7 would be to suspend the member state of its voting rights in EU institutions and suspend EU financial transfers, but that would require unanimity among the member states in a subsequent vote. Hungary’s rightwing government has insisted it would never support such a move."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-voting-rights
__________________
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #10712  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:34
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Actually not the EU but the Commission.

In the past, the EU was largely ruled by concensus, and debates sometimes raged on into mind-numbing pedantry just to make sure everybody was on board. Mrs Thatcher of course was among those who used that shamelessly to carve out special deals.

But for all the faults of the old style, the new style based on threats and bullying is far worse. Too much consensus can be a handicap, but too much authoritarianism is outright dangerous.

But that said, and for the reasons you state, this will probably come to nothing. So why is the EU sabre rattling over an empty threat? It's just one massive power trip. Maybe it's like in pre Bresit days. We can do what we want, they say. People will never get so fed up that they will want to leave.

Leaning from recent history is not really their thing.
The thing is, all this will do is galvanise support for the government in Poland. Just like in Hungary when there was pressure against Orban. Eastern Europeans are very proud and nationalistic and will see this as an attack on their country. If this is to be the outcome, makes you wonder why bother in the first place?
Reply With Quote
  #10713  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:41
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The thing is, all this will do is galvanise support for the government in Poland. Just like in Hungary when there was pressure against Orban. Eastern Europeans are very proud and nationalistic and will see this as an attack on their country. If this is to be the outcome, makes you wonder why bother in the first place?
Its retribution for refusing migrants, isn't it? Which is really an abuse of power when they are not able to reason things through. Typical bullying tactic. I'm just surprise other countries can be bought and go along with bs.
Reply With Quote
  #10714  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:45
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Depends. 4/5ths for a warning but unanimous for suspension of voting rights.

"At least 22 of the 28 member states will now need to vote in favour of the commission’s proposal for a formal warning, but Brussels is confident it has the numbers.

The most serious sanction possible under article 7 would be to suspend the member state of its voting rights in EU institutions and suspend EU financial transfers, but that would require unanimity among the member states in a subsequent vote. Hungary’s rightwing government has insisted it would never support such a move."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-voting-rights
"The most serious sanction possible under article 7 would be to suspend the member state of its voting rights in EU institutions " That is article 7(2), I was posting about 7(1).
I do not see how one would get unanimity among the member states in a subsequent vote when surely Poland would not vote so?
Reply With Quote
  #10715  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:51
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 65 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,347 Times in 1,437 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Its retribution for refusing migrants, isn't it? Which is really an abuse of power when they are not able to reason things through. Typical bullying tactic. I'm just surprise other countries can be bought and go along with bs.
Not really, it's a potential sanction for breaking the rules. Poland's government isn't the victim here, it is the culprit. It's certainly sod all to do with your perceived EU grudge against their refugee intake, you are once more conflating two things to bash the EU.
Reply With Quote
  #10716  
Old 20.12.2017, 16:53
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,802
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 3,037 Times in 1,532 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Why do you mislead EF members with statements that are not supported by facts?
At this stage I doubt there are many people left who take comments from
Loz1983 or Phos very seriously.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
This user groans at Jim2007 for this post:
  #10717  
Old 20.12.2017, 17:01
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Not really, it's a potential sanction for breaking the rules. Poland's government isn't the victim here, it is the culprit. It's certainly sod all to do with your perceived EU grudge against their refugee intake, you are once more conflating two things to bash the EU.
My perceived EU grudge is based on their real grudge against Visigrad states for low migrant intake.
http://www.dw.com/en/eu-sues-czech-r...ake/a-41691870
Reply With Quote
  #10718  
Old 20.12.2017, 17:12
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
My perceived EU grudge is based on their real grudge against Visigrad states for low migrant intake.
http://www.dw.com/en/eu-sues-czech-r...ake/a-41691870
Even this they can't agree on. Tusk wants to get rid of quotas as they're not working.
Reply With Quote
  #10719  
Old 20.12.2017, 17:22
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,253
Groaned at 181 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 17,624 Times in 7,484 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The thing is, all this will do is galvanise support for the government in Poland. Just like in Hungary when there was pressure against Orban. Eastern Europeans are very proud and nationalistic and will see this as an attack on their country. If this is to be the outcome, makes you wonder why bother in the first place?
yes, and in that repsct I think the Poles are even tougher and more nationalistic than the Hunagrians.

Hungarian nationalism is mostly a matter of political expeditiousness. They used to rule an empire and had no qualms about adopting and borrowing stuff from the countries they ruled. They have loads of ethic, linguistic and religious miinorities even today. If you look at their history, their ancestors came from all over, including central Asia, and their culture still shows it. So they're not really nationslistic at all in the old school racialist sense but just a mixture of patriotic and easily excited. Oh yes, and they have a natural distrust of authority and hate being told what to do. The showdown between Hungary and the EU might have come out quite differently if only the EU had done their homework and played their cards more smartly. But the EU wouldn't listen to reason and insisted on digging its own hole on that one. All that Orban had to do was hand them a nice big spade.

Poland, on the other hand, is deeply religious about being nationalistic. The EU is really playing a dangerous game if they want to light that fuse.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #10720  
Old 20.12.2017, 17:42
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Sounds to me they held on to a sense of self-preservation and not buy into Western Europe's suicidal self-sterilization bent.

May they be fruitful and multiply!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0