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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11261  
Old 05.02.2018, 15:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The EU will bend.
Why should they? It't the UK that painted itself in a corner. They would only have to sit back and watch the panic as the hard Brexit approaches...
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  #11262  
Old 05.02.2018, 16:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Trains are on average in the UK actually cheaper than in Switzerland.
You should see on Tripadvisor how often Brits are astonished by the fact that, yes, getting from Geneva to Zürich costs 89,- CHF, and no, you can't take a cheap coach in stead...
Just did a check for trains for tomorrow. comparable distance. Dept 10.30 / Rtn 20.30.

Crewe - London Euston 169 miles / 272km 1hr 32mins direct
Anytime rtn £261
Off peak rtn £79

Zurich HB - Geneva 171 miles / 276km 2hr 48mins with stops
Individual tickets CHF 176 / £ 134
Saver day pass CHF 106 / £ 80.89
Supersaver CHF 93.60 / £ 71.43
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  #11263  
Old 05.02.2018, 16:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just did a check for trains for tomorrow. comparable distance. Dept 10.30 / Rtn 20.30.

Crewe - London Euston 169 miles / 272km 1hr 32mins direct
Anytime rtn £261
Off peak rtn £79

Zurich HB - Geneva 171 miles / 276km 2hr 48mins with stops
Individual tickets CHF 176 / £ 134
Saver day pass CHF 106 / £ 80.89
Supersaver CHF 93.60 / £ 71.43
I checked for London - Sheffield, departure 15:26 (was the next time available when I checked), almost exactly the same distance £ 97.50. Although if you don't mind arriving in the wee small hours £ 17.50 is also possible. UK price can be much more but also can be much less. All depends very much on flexibility and how long in advance you actually know you are travelling.
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  #11264  
Old 05.02.2018, 17:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just did a check for trains for tomorrow. comparable distance. Dept 10.30 / Rtn 20.30.

Crewe - London Euston 169 miles / 272km 1hr 32mins direct
Anytime rtn £261
Off peak rtn £79

Zurich HB - Geneva 171 miles / 276km 2hr 48mins with stops
Individual tickets CHF 176 / £ 134
Saver day pass CHF 106 / £ 80.89
Supersaver CHF 93.60 / £ 71.43
Add to that, that in the UK you are making that journey on a train with WiFi, and where if you're in first class you get complementary warm or cold snacks and drfinks served at your seat, SBB still has a long way to go there.

The journey takes 1hr and 34 minutes. The journey from Zürich to Geneva takes almost twice as long.

So methinks there is plenty more value for money in the UK example.

But this is a main line service mind you, on a train from London. If you're travelling to some backwater the attractivity reverses. Swiss trains are consistantly good, even if they go from one sh*tty place to an ever sh#ttier one, whereas in the UK the quality degrades quite quickly when you look at rural stuff and you're not near London.
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  #11265  
Old 05.02.2018, 22:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

There's some banter.

https://twitter.com/ZacGoldsmith/sta...41047272112128
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  #11266  
Old 05.02.2018, 23:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Good to see the Swiss and Brits are actively engaged in their so called Mind the Gap strategy, given how shambolic the larger Brexit mess looks.
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  #11267  
Old 06.02.2018, 08:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just did a check for trains for tomorrow. comparable distance. Dept 10.30 / Rtn 20.30.

Crewe - London Euston 169 miles / 272km 1hr 32mins direct
Anytime rtn £261
Off peak rtn £79

Zurich HB - Geneva 171 miles / 276km 2hr 48mins with stops
Individual tickets CHF 176 / £ 134
Saver day pass CHF 106 / £ 80.89
Supersaver CHF 93.60 / £ 71.43

This confirms what I stated basically.

You can btw travel London - Crewe return for 40.50 UKP if you stick to WM trains. And that even when bought on the day of travel. Not an option you have in Switzerland...
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  #11268  
Old 06.02.2018, 08:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But this is a main line service mind you, on a train from London. If you're travelling to some backwater the attractivity reverses. Swiss trains are consistantly good, even if they go from one sh*tty place to an ever sh#ttier one, whereas in the UK the quality degrades quite quickly when you look at rural stuff and you're not near London.
The Brittish country side is of course a lot sparse populated than the Swiss. That also matters. And it matters where. My experience is that quality of PT in the UK varies a lot, and depends a lot on whether the local authorities are interested in good public transit or not...
In Switzerland geography plays a role too. In the mountains you usually have a string of villages along a valley floor that you can efficiently serve with just a single bus line.
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  #11269  
Old 06.02.2018, 09:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Brittish country side is of course a lot sparse populated than the Swiss.
Taking English rather than British then not really. Norfolk - one of the counties with the lowest English population density - has 155 people per Km2. Canton Bern is 167.

Last edited by baboon; 06.02.2018 at 09:36.
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  #11270  
Old 06.02.2018, 23:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Taking English rather than British then not really. Norfolk - one of the counties with the lowest English population density - has 155 people per Km2. Canton Bern is 167.
Most of the people in the Canton of Bern however live in the lowlands, where the population density is 500+. Switzerland is heavily urbanised.

But I will grant you that public transit is better in CH. But then we spend a lot more money on it too.
However the UK isn't that bad. Compared to for example France...
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  #11271  
Old 07.02.2018, 08:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Most of the people in the Canton of Bern however live in the lowlands, where the population density is 500+. Switzerland is heavily urbanised...
...as it is across pretty well the whole of south-east England. Both are rather overcrowded...only want to make the point that population density isn't really a reason for any difference in public transport quality.
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  #11272  
Old 07.02.2018, 08:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Taking English rather than British then not really. Norfolk - one of the counties with the lowest English population density - has 155 people per Km2. Canton Bern is 167.
And Ticino has 128.

And a crap public transport system.

Tom
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  #11273  
Old 07.02.2018, 09:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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330 according to this. No comment on your public transport though.
330 per square MILE!

"Density 130/km2 (330/sq mi)"

Tom
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  #11274  
Old 07.02.2018, 09:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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330 per square MILE!

"Density 130/km2 (330/sq mi)"

Tom
Oh shit - sorry
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  #11275  
Old 08.02.2018, 00:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The Guardian has learned that secret papers from the government’s own secret economic analysis, assess the economic impact of leaving the bloc, and predict that if there is no deal, the government will need to borrow £120bn more over the next 15 years.

The report is understood to predict an additional 21% rise in retail prices, an 18% rise in agricultural costs, a 17% rise in food and drink costs and 14% rise in motor vehicles and parts, over the 15 years post-Brexit. It predicts that if the UK were to trade under WTO terms, tariffs could mean food and drink prices increase by an additional 12.7%, sources said.

Source
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  #11276  
Old 08.02.2018, 14:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...as it is across pretty well the whole of south-east England. Both are rather overcrowded...only want to make the point that population density isn't really a reason for any difference in public transport quality.
My impression is that the south-east of England has pretty decent public transport though.

Again, way better than comparable regions have in say, France...
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  #11277  
Old 08.02.2018, 14:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Now the Russians, they *get* Twitter.

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/s...64388711976962
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  #11278  
Old 08.02.2018, 14:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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My impression is that the south-east of England has pretty decent public transport though.

Again, way better than comparable regions have in say, France...
France is more hit and miss. Many towns have put in trams and things over the last 20 years. In the UK some towns have too, but in France there are many many more of them and they're a lot nicer. So obviously there is a will to lavish big money on such things. But once you get out into the sticks, the quality of service thins out pretty quickly and you get your two buses a day sort of service.

If you try to get anywhere in the Uk using a rural bus service on a Sunday, you probably won't be going anywhere. But yeah, when it comes down to weekday service, even rural places get semi-usable service. Nothing like Switzerland of course, but there are many European countrues where things are far worse.

Spain is even worse than France for example.
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  #11279  
Old 08.02.2018, 15:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Guardian has learned that secret papers from the government’s own secret economic analysis, assess the economic impact of leaving the bloc, and predict that if there is no deal, the government will need to borrow £120bn more over the next 15 years.

The report is understood to predict an additional 21% rise in retail prices, an 18% rise in agricultural costs, a 17% rise in food and drink costs and 14% rise in motor vehicles and parts, over the 15 years post-Brexit. It predicts that if the UK were to trade under WTO terms, tariffs could mean food and drink prices increase by an additional 12.7%, sources said.

Source
Brexit vote would spark recession - IMF
820,000 jobs lost within two years - George Osbourne
Immediate and profound economic shock - Mark Carney
We must downgrade growth to 1.4% - OBR at Autumn budget

Zzzzzzzzzz.

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  #11280  
Old 08.02.2018, 15:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Guardian has learned that secret papers from the government’s own secret economic analysis, assess the economic impact of leaving the bloc, and predict that if there is no deal, the government will need to borrow £120bn more over the next 15 years.

The report is understood to predict an additional 21% rise in retail prices, an 18% rise in agricultural costs, a 17% rise in food and drink costs and 14% rise in motor vehicles and parts, over the 15 years post-Brexit. It predicts that if the UK were to trade under WTO terms, tariffs could mean food and drink prices increase by an additional 12.7%, sources said.

Source
Sssh! You're not suppose to know.. Once Brexit happens and Labour is in power, the Tories will just blame Labour for all of this and some..
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