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Old 10.05.2016, 12:22
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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This whole "optimization" project is kinda odd - in addition to the draconian speed limits they tear down zebras in the area...how is this optimal?
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Out of curiosity: what is this comment based on?
How does removal or deployment of zebra is related to my driving skills?
You give the impression that at the time of the offence you didn't understand the main point of the 30 Km/h zone. In this restricted zone you have to expect cyclists, animals and children running out into the road, they have the right to play in the road. You must be prepared to stop immediately, the complete zone must be considered to be a giant "zebra crossing."

Knowing about these peculiar Swiss things, must be a part of driving skill. I suggest you find out more about Swiss driving regulations, and some are different to the rules in Germany. Any Swiss driving school will sell you a CD or book, or some time on their teaching computers.

The zebra crossings have been removed to make the area look nice, it is what the people voted for.
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  #22  
Old 10.05.2016, 12:59
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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This whole "optimization" project is kinda odd - in addition to the draconian speed limits they tear down zebras in the area...how is this optimal?
30km/h zones dramatically reduce the severity of accidents, and research shows that creating mixed-use spaces increases driver attention. Basically, if you think you own the road, you drive that way. If you know that you're sharing it with pedestrians and cyclists, you're more likely to look out for them as potential hazards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_km/h_zone
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Old 10.05.2016, 13:09
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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You give the impression that at the time of the offence you didn't understand the main point of the 30 Km/h zone. In this restricted zone you have to expect cyclists, animals and children running out into the road, they have the right to play in the road. You must be prepared to stop immediately, the complete zone must be considered to be a giant "zebra crossing."

Who has to brush up his knowledge about the driving rules?

A Tempo-30 Zone is not a playground. Pedestrians do not have the right of way on it. But you have to drive carefully.

On the other hand the rules you mention apply to the Begegnungszone/Zone de rencontre/Shared space zone which has a speed limit of 20 km/h.

speed-limit-violation-accept-not-police-sanction-zonesigns.png

German:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
Italian:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
French:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
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  #24  
Old 10.05.2016, 13:09
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Dear All,

I was unlucky enough to seriously break the speed limit. I wasn't driving very fast - only about 50 km/h, but that happened inside the (newly-designated) 30km/h zone.

Local police sent me a letter stating that they decided to revoke my driving license for a period of 1 month. The letter was asking whether I would agree to accept this sanction.

My question: what will happen if I don't sign this letter? Does this mean sending the matter to court? If so, what might come out of such court hearing? From your experience, would I be better off accepting the 1 month loss of the license in a situation like this?

Thank you very much in advance
Dmitry
It has been thoroughly covered in the previous posts, just a long story short:

what will happen if I don't sign this letter?
Then it is your word against theirs, normal dispute, so the court decides. Just be aware that they probably have evidence , you don't.

Does this mean sending the matter to court?
Very likely.

If so, what might come out of such court hearing?

Depends. As I said, they probably have strong evidence against you. Do you have what you think is enough evidence to convince the judge that you did not do it or that the charge is unjustified? In case you don't have such evidence, the outcome will likely be the same penalty if not more plus court costs.

From your experience, would I be better off accepting the 1 month loss of the license in a situation like this?
Yes, learn the lesson and go on.
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  #25  
Old 10.05.2016, 13:33
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Who has to brush up his knowledge about the driving rules?

A Tempo-30 Zone is not a playground. Pedestrians do not have the right of way on it. But you have to drive carefully.

On the other hand the rules you mention apply to the Begegnungszone/Zone de rencontre/Shared space zone which has a speed limit of 20 km/h.

Attachment 113911

German:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
Italian:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
French:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
This

30 zones don't have crossings, although they usually have really wide and shallow bumps that are level with the sidewalk, and of course it is kind of expected that people will cross pretty much wherever, but they are not allowed to "play on the street".

The 20 zones with the special sign are zones, like the Neumarkt area near the Oerlikon station, where there are people, pets, etc. expected.
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  #26  
Old 10.05.2016, 13:38
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Out of curiosity: what is this comment based on?
How does removal or deployment of zebra is related to my driving skills?
As a consequence of the general approach, 30km/h zones usually come without zebra strips (rare exceptions apply, e.g. around schools or hospitals). Your remark clearly implies you are unaware of that, thus lack fundamental knowledge and thus, driving skill.

To those interested, here's an overview by the TCS (in German)(fook, there's a fair chance you need much more info than just this single paper).
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  #27  
Old 10.05.2016, 13:39
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Well if I saw a zebra roaming the streets of Basil I would slow down and look twice!! But how that relates to your driving skills I can not say.
I hear Zebras all the time - but when I look it turns out they are horses
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  #28  
Old 10.05.2016, 13:52
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Who has to brush up his knowledge about the driving rules?

A Tempo-30 Zone is not a playground. Pedestrians do not have the right of way on it. But you have to drive carefully.

On the other hand the rules you mention apply to the Begegnungszone/Zone de rencontre/Shared space zone which has a speed limit of 20 km/h.

Attachment 113911

German:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
Italian:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi...ndex.html#a22a
French:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...ndex.html#a22a

Thanks, this is exactly what I thought: 30 km/h zone is NOT the same as "precinct" (designated by the blue sign with kids running around).

Again, some parts of the 30 km/h zone in Basel DO have zebras (designated pedestrian crossings). Is this just because the authorities forget to remove them? Don't think so.
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  #29  
Old 10.05.2016, 14:06
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Thanks, this is exactly what I thought: 30 km/h zone is NOT the same as "precinct" (designated by the blue sign with kids running around).
Of course not, otherwise one sign would do.
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Again, some parts of the 30 km/h zone in Basel DO have zebras (designated pedestrian crossings). Is this just because the authorities forget to remove them? Don't think so.
As you may know by now, pedestrians have no way of right in 30km/h zones, but they do on zebra strips. That's why you still may see some in with unusually high traffic of whatever kind.
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Old 10.05.2016, 14:12
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

There are three zones in the inner city of Basel.

1. 30 kph limit area
2. 20 kph limit area - shared area
3. 20 kph limit area that at times are a pedestrian zone - mainly Freiestrasse outside of 5am to 11am. (not sure if bicycles are permitted, but I have seen the police having a word with cyclists from time to time - perhaps for cycling too aggressively or fast).

In the first zone, there are still zebra crossings . However, where they used to have three on a t-junction, typically there is now just one or two, as this (a Basel police officer told me) allows the "priority to the right" system to work a little more smoothly. I can't recall seeing any areas where they've been entirely removed.

All of this information is available either on the streets by direct observation or by looking at the link I posted earlier.
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  #31  
Old 10.05.2016, 16:54
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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I hear Zebras all the time - but when I look it turns out they are horses
No they are Zebras just with the white light stripes turned off.
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  #32  
Old 10.05.2016, 18:31
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

Yes one has to hit these driving offenders as hard as possible-maybe then they will learn something ( but most likely not).
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  #33  
Old 10.05.2016, 19:06
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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Yes one has to hit these driving offenders as hard as possible-maybe then they will learn something ( but most likely not).
I have to say I am quite amazed at amount of pent up aggression that I sense in some replies...wonder where it comes from. Years of driving at less than normal speed, maybe?
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  #34  
Old 10.05.2016, 19:08
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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I can't recall seeing any areas where they've been entirely removed.
Kleinbasel / Claragraben
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Old 10.05.2016, 19:30
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

Maybe you dont know that alot of drivers let their pent up aggressions out on the roads. And how many innocent people die from their senseless behavior.
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I have to say I am quite amazed at amount of pent up aggression that I sense in some replies...wonder where it comes from. Years of driving at less than normal speed, maybe?
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  #36  
Old 10.05.2016, 21:05
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

I look upon the replies as good advice. If you see it as aggressive, then sorry.

Some of us have been driving here for years, and have been in trouble before and paid the price, so if you don't like the answers, maybe you shouldn't ask the question?
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Old 11.05.2016, 19:04
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

Thank you all for answering my question.
Overall it was rather informative, I learned something new.
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Old 11.05.2016, 19:17
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Re: Speed limit violation -accept or not the police sanction?

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I have to say I am quite amazed at amount of pent up aggression that I sense in some replies...wonder where it comes from. Years of driving at less than normal speed, maybe?


Fook,


If you hang around here on EF you will notice that there are regularly threads where someone has had an accident, or been caught speeding and seems to think that the fine is unfair. It doesn't matter if you think the fine or the speed limit is fair or not, what matters is what the law is.


The speed limit where you were caught is posted, you were going too fast. It is your duty as a driver to know what the speed limit is. It is that simple.
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