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  #41  
Old 14.06.2016, 17:27
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Re: NHS question

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That's outrageous? The Brits should have some sort of poll about that.



Which won't change anything.
They are - on the 23rd June.
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Old 14.06.2016, 17:47
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Re: NHS question

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I don't?? I could just move there? I'm not sure that's correct

(PS you never told me if the photo-thingy worked)
Totally correct, you could move there tomorrow if you wanted.

Did I not? Sorry I thought I'd replied but maybe I was in too much shock from the photo you sent! It worked.
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  #43  
Old 14.06.2016, 18:17
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Re: NHS question

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You obviously don't know how much strength and energy a birth requires and how weak a lot of women feel afterwards.


It's fine to go home a day or two after a birth if you can recover at peace in your own time but most women have not only themselves to look after but a newborn child also.

Er.... hopefully most women have a partner to help them and also a family support system.


I personally have never felt so stressed - I was offered a bed for a couple more days but I declined. Home was definitely the better option for me.


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The first thing she would need to do is register with a G.P. Then she will be given appointment with a nurse, who will ask relevant health questions and do necessary basic health checks, blood pressure etc.


Any necessary referals to specialists/ hospitals go via the G.P. Can be a bit a lotto postcode, when you get the appointment for specialist, although i suspect pregnant woman/baby a bit different.

Normally getting appointment with a G.P. has to be done weeks in advance. Though many offer emergency same day 5 minute appointments as well as their being health drop in centres for same, but you usually have to wait hours for same. The normal G.P. appointment is ca 10 minutes. My GP once told me to book a double appointment as he was to carry out a minor procedure on me

Yes, register with a GP. They will then refer you to "their" community midwife. You can have you checks/scans etc in a variety of centres to suit you.


No - a GP appointment does not take weeks. It may be the next couple of days if you're not an emergency, but not weeks, particularly if you explain the situation. Most practices will be able to fit you in at the end of a morning or evening surgery anyway - common practise at mine, at least.

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Thus confirming that the NHS is shit.


Oh dear. It's not. It really, really is not. Overworked, stretched to snapping point on occasion, but nowhere even close to shit.


Being told that it's ok for a 2 year old who has not eaten for two days to have a 41 degree temperature for a further three days and not be hospitalised is shit, IMHO. But what the hell do I know?
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  #44  
Old 14.06.2016, 20:03
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Re: NHS question

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Assistance in getting the baby to breastfeed. In case of post birth complications (baby and mother). Receiving hospital care makes it easier for the mother to recover from the birth.
In those cases the mother stays in (source, birth complications and problems breast feeding.... Only sent home 5 days post parum, when my lost blood was replaced (3 days post partum) and my milk came in (4 days post partum). I was itching to go home as soon as the milk came in but the hospital said better to stay another night to make sure the baby was de-yellowing and plumping properly, and that she didn't have nipple confusion from the syringe feeds.
Other friends went home the same day because they had no problems.
Each situation is different and the NHS are flexible around that. The idea of spending a week in hospital post-partum with no complications and feeding established is really odd to me, and really interferes with father-baby bonding (mind you, in the UK dads get a week or two leave at birth, as opposed to the one day here, so that probably interferes with father-baby bonding too)
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  #45  
Old 14.06.2016, 20:07
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Re: NHS question

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(mind you, in the UK dads get a week or two leave at birth, as opposed to the one day here, so that probably interferes with father-baby bonding too)


Two weeks.
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  #46  
Old 14.06.2016, 20:12
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Re: NHS question

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Two weeks.
Where? In the UK is it now 2 weeks paid? When I had mine it was one or two weeks (depending on agreement with employer). I'm pretty sure it's not two weeks paid here, at least that's what the lady in HR told me.

But, OP be warned, Maternity paid leave and (I guess) paternity leave have pre-required working periods (I think it's six months before due date but that was 8 years ago so I am not 100% sure) so also think about the post birth financial aspects, especially in the early weeks/months when most support is needed.
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Old 14.06.2016, 20:17
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Re: NHS question

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Where? In the UK is it now 2 weeks paid? When I had mine it was one or two weeks (depending on agreement with employer). I'm pretty sure it's not two weeks paid here, at least that's what the lady in HR told me.


Sorry, yes, in the UK. It's something like 90% of the father's normal salary. Although I believe the pay rate can fluctuate (there is a statutory minimum which is all employers HAVE to pay and that can be rough). The two weeks they have to give you, however. As soon as the father registers a copy of the mother's MATB1 form (the form that the mother needs to trigger mat leave and mat pay etc at her place of work) then the father is entitled to begin his paternity leave as soon as he needs to and without warning (LR was two weeks early, for instance).


I think it's only a couple of days in CH - my OH's company awards 4 days I think. Yikes.
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  #48  
Old 14.06.2016, 20:21
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Re: NHS question

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Sorry, yes, in the UK. It's something like 90% of the father's normal salary. Although I believe the pay rate can fluctuate (there is a statutory minimum which is all employers HAVE to pay and that can be rough). The two weeks they have to give you, however. As soon as the father registers a copy of the mother's MATB1 form (the form that the mother needs to trigger mat leave and mat pay etc at her place of work) then the father is entitled to begin his paternity leave as soon as he needs to and without warning (LR was two weeks early, for instance).


I think it's only a couple of days in CH - my OH's company awards 4 days I think. Yikes.
Imagine, 4 days and mum and baby are in hospital.... How much bonding can you really do? Poor fathers.
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  #49  
Old 14.06.2016, 20:24
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Re: NHS question

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Imagine, 4 days and mum and baby are in hospital.... How much bonding can you really do? Poor fathers.


I know. It's horrid. I guess the only option would be do have the "event" day (or days) as annual leave and then hopefully have the mat leave days after. I don't know. I don't think it's at all fair on the dads.


I don't think hospitals are conducive to bonding anyway. You just get told what to do and when to do it by (mostly) other women, some of whom you suspect have never had a kid themselves.


I challenged one particular obstreperous midwifery student about it until she caved and said no, she hadn't had kids, but that was how they'd been told to be in college etc.
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  #50  
Old 14.06.2016, 22:07
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Re: NHS question

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I know. It's horrid. I guess the only option would be do have the "event" day (or days) as annual leave and then hopefully have the mat leave days after. I don't know. I don't think it's at all fair on the dads.


I don't think hospitals are conducive to bonding anyway. You just get told what to do and when to do it by (mostly) other women, some of whom you suspect have never had a kid themselves.


I challenged one particular obstreperous midwifery student about it until she caved and said no, she hadn't had kids, but that was how they'd been told to be in college etc.
I think it's like with most things though, it depends. I would have bonded a lot more with the Troll if we hadn't been kicked out of hospital after 1 full night (the night I spent giving birth counted as a night, you see, and were I gave birth you got 2 nights), and we wouldn't have been hours from him getting brain damage from serious jaundice before anyone noticed either.

In Norway as innthe UK they send you home asap, which in my case was before I had gotten over a traumatic birth and had gotten the hang of breastfeeding. We had no family in our town, we were alone with the new baby and terrified, I was still trying to come to terms with what had happened (short version: in a developing country one of us probably wouldn't have survived) and we had no clue about what to do.

What really saved the day was that the Troll had to go to intensive care for a week because of the jaundice, it gave us a new start. But I still had a really bad post-partum and problems breasfeeding for a couple of months; somehow I think we could have had an easier start if we hadn't been rushed out to the unknown as we were.

But I completely understand why some want to go home as soon as possible, I was also looking forward to cozying up with Junior innthe comfort of our home. Sometimes though, you need the extra support to make it through and it's good to at least have the opportunity to stay a bit longer.
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  #51  
Old 15.06.2016, 09:02
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Re: NHS question

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Oh dear. It's not. It really, really is not. Overworked, stretched to snapping point on occasion, but nowhere even close to shit.
A service that you've paid a hell of a lot of money for, yet still have to wait weeks to be seen by someone is not a very good service. But without taking this too far off topic, I think we can agree that you never have to wait long for an appointment here.

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Other friends went home the same day because they had no problems.
Each situation is different and the NHS are flexible around that. The idea of spending a week in hospital post-partum with no complications and feeding established is really odd to me, and really interferes with father-baby bonding (mind you, in the UK dads get a week or two leave at birth, as opposed to the one day here, so that probably interferes with father-baby bonding too)
As I said earlier, no one forces you to stay in hospital here, it's your choice. But in the UK, you are put under pressure to leave hospital within a day if there are no complications.

Last edited by Loz1983; 15.06.2016 at 09:38.
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Old 15.06.2016, 09:34
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Re: NHS question

If you can, my advice would be to avoid having a baby in the UK, my experience was horrendous. There is such a volume, that the unit in the next town closed down and all the expectant mums delivering were being sent to the hospital where I was. No anaesthetist was available for epidural any drugs, and some babies were being born on the ward because all the birthing rooms were occupied. I stayed for 5 days after due to some complications. My friend delivered a couple of weeks later and her experience was far worse. This was in the south of the UK, just a few years ago, and the situation hasn't improved!

This is not scaremongering, but I guess it also depends on where you are. I have found hospital care far superior here than that of the UK.
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Old 15.06.2016, 15:02
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Re: NHS question

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A service that you've paid a hell of a lot of money for, yet still have to wait weeks to be seen by someone is not a very good service. But without taking this too far off topic, I think we can agree that you never have to wait long for an appointment here.



As I said earlier, no one forces you to stay in hospital here, it's your choice. But in the UK, you are put under pressure to leave hospital within a day if there are no complications.
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If you can, my advice would be to avoid having a baby in the UK, my experience was horrendous. There is such a volume, that the unit in the next town closed down and all the expectant mums delivering were being sent to the hospital where I was. No anaesthetist was available for epidural any drugs, and some babies were being born on the ward because all the birthing rooms were occupied. I stayed for 5 days after due to some complications. My friend delivered a couple of weeks later and her experience was far worse. This was in the south of the UK, just a few years ago, and the situation hasn't improved!

This is not scaremongering, but I guess it also depends on where you are. I have found hospital care far superior here than that of the UK.




I'm sorry for your experience, Fidgety. Truly. Care can vary but all I know is my experience - and the experiences of various friends and family members. They've all had good experiences.


Loz - I don't understand - pay a lot of money in CH and then weeks, or in the UK? UK care is free at source.
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  #54  
Old 15.06.2016, 16:00
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Re: NHS question

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Loz - I don't understand - pay a lot of money in CH and then weeks, or in the UK? UK care is free at source.
The NHS isn't free. It costs well in excess of £100 billion per year. I'm willing to bet you would pay more towards it in Tax if you were in the UK than what your health insurance costs here.
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Old 15.06.2016, 16:18
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Re: NHS question

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The NHS isn't free. It costs well in excess of £100 billion per year. I'm willing to bet you would pay more towards it in Tax if you were in the UK than what your health insurance costs here.

Yes it is. I've never been billed by the NHS.


And I don't personally foot the whole bill so that's a little off-point. And no - I may have paid more tax monthly in the UK than the cost of my personal health insurance here, but not all of UK tax goes to the NHS.


And I certainly don't pay twice, which is, in effect, what happens here if you want to keep your premiums at a manageable rate so have a sizeable excess.


Plus we already pay tax so... by your argument, we're paying thrice, here.
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Old 15.06.2016, 16:50
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Re: NHS question

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Yes it is. I've never been billed by the NHS.


And I don't personally foot the whole bill so that's a little off-point. And no - I may have paid more tax monthly in the UK than the cost of my personal health insurance here, but not all of UK tax goes to the NHS.


And I certainly don't pay twice, which is, in effect, what happens here if you want to keep your premiums at a manageable rate so have a sizeable excess.


Plus we already pay tax so... by your argument, we're paying thrice, here.
No, it's not. If you haven't been billed then you haven't presented your Swiss EHIC card as you should. We got the bill from our Swiss insurer when the OH had to go into hospital in the UK. Came to CHF5,000 which the insurer paid so we didn't pay anything ourselves, not even the franchise/deductible.

This is why the NHS is in such dire straits financially. People from other countries come and freeload off it. They're clamping down on that somewhat, but it still happens far too often.
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Old 15.06.2016, 17:38
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Re: NHS question

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No, it's not. If you haven't been billed then you haven't presented your Swiss EHIC card as you should. We got the bill from our Swiss insurer when the OH had to go into hospital in the UK. Came to CHF5,000 which the insurer paid so we didn't pay anything ourselves, not even the franchise/deductible.

This is why the NHS is in such dire straits financially. People from other countries come and freeload off it. They're clamping down on that somewhat, but it still happens far too often.
I'm talking about before I came here. The NHS is free at source if you're a UK resident or have been within the past 5 years I believe. . The Swiss system is not even if you are a resident. You pay tax. You pay insurance premiums. You pay bills too if you have a high excess.

Please don't leap to conclusions about me. I rather resent your hasty implication.
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Old 15.06.2016, 17:51
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Re: NHS question

I'm not leaping to conclusions about you RufusB. Just making the point that the NHS does get a lot of abuse from non-residents.

And in the UK you also pay tax and NI so where's the difference? Okay, those not in work won't, but the majority of people will pay for the NHS in some form, just not the Swiss model. The costs are hidden so it seems "free", but in reality it isn't, just paid for in a different way.
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Old 15.06.2016, 18:03
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Re: NHS question

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I'm not leaping to conclusions about you RufusB. Just making the point that the NHS does get a lot of abuse from non-residents.

And in the UK you also pay tax and NI so where's the difference? Okay, those not in work won't, but the majority of people will pay for the NHS in some form, just not the Swiss model. The costs are hidden so it seems "free", but in reality it isn't, just paid for in a different way.




OK - thank you. It's not like you to get my dander up! I must need a nap.


NI does not fund, in any way, the NHS. It goes to pensions and maternity leave/other benefits I believe.


Tax does, in part, go to fund the NHS, but not all of the tax we pay does. And, my point still is, once tax is paid (and even if it is not for whatever reason) the NHS is currently free to residents, which is what the OP (to get back on track) will be if he moves back.


It may not be "hidden" here, but it is bloody expensive. And, to repeat myself, if your excess is high (which is often necessary in order to keep premiums reasonable), then you pay monthly and then pay again for treatment on top of that. You pay more than once, effectively. Nothing will convince me otherwise, I'm afraid! And certain very minor things are quickly "uninsurable" for the supplementary insurance - and some not very minor things, like diabetes. Unless you want to pay prohibitive amounts. And don't get me started on dental costs.


I know it's popular to put the boot in to the much maligned NHS but I think it's grossly unfair. It's a system. It works. And, because we do anecdotes here on EF, for three of the most terrifying instances in my entire life, it was exceptional.
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Old 15.06.2016, 19:29
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Re: NHS question

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Er.... hopefully most women have a partner to help them and also a family support system.


I personally have never felt so stressed - I was offered a bed for a couple more days but I declined. Home was definitely the better option for me.

In a perfect world -yes most women do have support systems. But we all know the world isn't perfect and often there is a justification for a few days in hospital after a birth.


I had no family support and my husband just started a new job and so I was glad to stay in hospital for a few days after each birth. Day 2 I didn't even have the strength to go to the toilet alone and had to ask the nurse to accompany me.
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