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Old 19.09.2016, 21:59
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supermarket being used as a bar

even though there has been a genuine portuguese supermarket for years literally 20 meters away, some other dudes thought it would cool to open another portuguese supermarket right next to my apartment.

turns out, it's just a hangout for middle aged portuguese men to drink beer all day every day. compared to their nonstop yapping and shouting, teenage girl chatter would be like a meditationn mixed-tape.

with good weather they hang outside the shop, with colder weather they simply sit inside at the counter till late at night.

i dont like other people having fun at the cost of my peace and quiet as much as the next guy. i suspect that it is not allowed to have a bar in that spot, and they are being clever.

can anyone point me in the right direction as to what law applies here? im not even sure what it would be called in english. destination planning i guess? "basel laden zweck gesetz" doesnt get me anywhere close.
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:04
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

Well, is it a supermarket or a bar ?

Do they have toilets ?

If this is a bar, the neighboorhood must be protected from any noise from a certain time(like 11 PM) on.

Do you know neighbors , who did file a complain or called the police ?
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:04
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

In Switzerland one can drink whatever wherever right? What the shop has to do with it? What's the difference if the people buy beers elsewhere and decide to come around your area. I guess you cannot do anything.
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:12
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

Kiosks selling drinks and sandwhiches cannot place seats and tables to encourage people to eat and drink there (obviously because they are not licensed as a bar). So if they have tables or seats right by the premises that may be off-limits. If that's not the case then as others said there's nothing you can do.
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:14
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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Well, is it a supermarket or a bar ?

Do they have toilets ?

If this is a bar, the neighboorhood must be protected from any noise from a certain time(like 11 PM) on.

Do you know neighbors , who did file a complain or called the police ?
well it's clearly a supermarket with all the random crappy consumables stacked to the ceiling. if they havent removed the toilet from the previous occupant they have "a" toilet but i suppose thats only normal.
police came around once to break up a fight. rather large presence, 10-20 cops, but that might be standard practice nowadays?

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In Switzerland one can drink whatever wherever right? What the shop has to do with it? What's the difference if the people buy beers elsewhere and decide to come around your area. I guess you cannot do anything.
yeah, it's definitely clever of them alright. no need for alcohol license etc. if you dont care about atmosphere, your own supermarket is a great place to hang with buddies. stock up on beer and fast food, what else do you need. maybe sell some shit on the side why not.
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:20
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

I and many others pick up something at the local shop, and then drink it.

What's the problem?

Tom
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:28
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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I and many others pick up something at the local shop, and then drink it.

What's the problem?

Tom
the problem is that its fukking annoying to come home to shouting drunken dudes everyday.

if you cant open a bar in that spot it's for that same reason. if you then call your bar a supermarket instead its not ok all of the sudden. should not be anyway.

if you can open a bar here anyway then im obviously SOL.

edit: basically looking for a law or register to look up if a bar would be a legal option for this particular place so i have something to argue with
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:40
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

sticky note!
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:56
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

The owner or the guy who runs it would have needed to ask (and be granted) the so called "Alkoholpatent" to be able to sell alcohol.
For the outfit to be a bar, he would have needed a "Wirtepatent".
Both these issuances would have to be publicized - but I can't find a free online source for this.


What's the name of the supermarket/bar?
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Old 19.09.2016, 22:57
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

It seems it many cantons this authority is called Gewerbepolizei, but for Basel I only found an authority for the hospitality business. Give 'em a call or just the plain city police and they'll tell you the right authority.
http://www.bvd.bs.ch/ueber-uns/aemte...spektorat.html
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Old 19.09.2016, 23:34
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

thanks, helpful stuff.

yeah "kleinhandel mit gebrannte wasser" license sounds like it fits. issued by the bau und gewerbeinspektorat so will contact them soon.
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Old 20.09.2016, 08:18
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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even though there has been a genuine portuguese supermarket for years literally 20 meters away, some other dudes thought it would cool to open another portuguese supermarket right next to my apartment.

turns out, it's just a hangout for middle aged portuguese men to drink beer all day every day. compared to their nonstop yapping and shouting, teenage girl chatter would be like a meditationn mixed-tape.

with good weather they hang outside the shop, with colder weather they simply sit inside at the counter till late at night.

i dont like other people having fun at the cost of my peace and quiet as much as the next guy. i suspect that it is not allowed to have a bar in that spot, and they are being clever.

can anyone point me in the right direction as to what law applies here? im not even sure what it would be called in english. destination planning i guess? "basel laden zweck gesetz" doesnt get me anywhere close.


Seems to be the norm. Same here, portuguese shop and loads of guys outside drinking beer all the time.
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Old 20.09.2016, 09:22
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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Kiosks selling drinks and sandwhiches cannot place seats and tables to encourage people to eat and drink there (obviously because they are not licensed as a bar). So if they have tables or seats right by the premises that may be off-limits. If that's not the case then as others said there's nothing you can do.


I've heard (hearsay, so don't take it to be absolutely correct), that some kiosks place a couple tables and chairs outside, thus licensing themselves as a café/bar/whathaveyour, just so they can be open on sundays and sell their consumable wares.
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Old 20.09.2016, 10:40
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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turns out, it's just a hangout for middle aged portuguese men to drink beer all day every day.
Yeah. I know a cheese shop like that.
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Old 20.09.2016, 14:23
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

At Rotkreuz Bahnhof there is a Migrolino supermarket which places chairs and tables outside and effectively functions as a bar (I have drank beer there myself!). I imagine a Migrolino would have the necessary permits.
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Old 20.09.2016, 14:35
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

I have one downstairs from me too, but the guy is Polish.

Never had a problem with him or his mates, they are there to keep him company while he keeps his business running. His wife and 5 month old child were there too the other day. Gorgeous wee baba, his wife is Thai and he also does homemade Thai food takeaways.

I don't see what your problem is. And i am sure if you try and shut him down because you don't like him or his mates, you are not going to be flavour of the week!!

Why not just ask the guy to tone it down a bit.

City living is never quiet, you have traffic, you have bars, you have shops, you have people out enjoying themselves, you have pesky neighbours, dogs barking, babies crying, etc. etc. I like it, just knowing there is some life around. Some can't hack it.
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Old 20.09.2016, 15:06
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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turns out, it's just a hangout for middle aged portuguese men to drink beer all day every day.
So, basically, guard dogs that you don't have to feed or walk.

What's your complaint, exactly?
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Old 20.09.2016, 15:31
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

Here is a description of the legal situation for a food/drink retailer who allows the consumption of purchases on the premises. (Ger.)
https://www.wirtepatent.ch/de/wissen...-aways-71.html

Very short summary:
Basel Stadt - an authorisation is required for both standing and sitting places, regulated under a Restaurant Business Law.
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Old 20.09.2016, 18:03
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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I have one downstairs from me too, but the guy is Polish.

Never had a problem with him or his mates, they are there to keep him company while he keeps his business running. His wife and 5 month old child were there too the other day. Gorgeous wee baba, his wife is Thai and he also does homemade Thai food takeaways.

I don't see what your problem is. And i am sure if you try and shut him down because you don't like him or his mates, you are not going to be flavour of the week!!

Why not just ask the guy to tone it down a bit.

City living is never quiet, you have traffic, you have bars, you have shops, you have people out enjoying themselves, you have pesky neighbours, dogs barking, babies crying, etc. etc. I like it, just knowing there is some life around. Some can't hack it.
yeah ill take the thai food over extra "city life" thanks
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Old 20.09.2016, 18:22
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Re: supermarket being used as a bar

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Kiosks selling drinks and sandwhiches cannot place seats and tables to encourage people to eat and drink there (obviously because they are not licensed as a bar). So if they have tables or seats right by the premises that may be off-limits. If that's not the case then as others said there's nothing you can do.
It a tax thing. Food eaten on permis has 8% VAT. Food sold to go has only 2.5% VAT.
A initaive which wanted to changed this was dimissed 2014 with more than 70% No votes.
https://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/20140928/index.html
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