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  #81  
Old 02.01.2017, 21:58
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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I was usually at one of the English pubs in the Niederdorf, after walking the 11km from work.
Tom
the Oliver Twist?
Well, by 1985/86 I hung out in Mr. D's in an other part of town .... till the owner ran off back to the US with the cash .... = no longer existed after
I wouldn't be surprised if he have met back then ..... but we're off subject now so let's stop.
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  #82  
Old 03.01.2017, 00:38
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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So, tell me about all these multinational corporations with offices in Leicester and Stoke. I'm dying to hear all about them!

I didn't even know the dark Midlands existed then. Beechams in London was very well known and pretty big even by London standards...Quite an experience and privilege, I must admit, to have a special permit due to my qualifications.

Mind you, even the Potteries had big international names- and to think of it, Leicester too. But that was irrelevant to me by then, for all sorts of excellent reasons.
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  #83  
Old 03.01.2017, 03:03
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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I came here in 1994 for a six week contract.

Now I am still here, married to a Swiss lady since eleven years and since four years have a Swiss citizenship.

Who knew this would happen?

How can you imagine planning this?

My life experience is that that life just happens, it is a myth to believe one can plan ones life?

My OH got an work contract and I got an internship back then. Who would have known we were going to stick around.


I don't care, frankly. I have a home "back home", so when or if a Swiss nutter decides we're redundant - it's fine by me.
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  #84  
Old 03.01.2017, 11:50
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

OK, let's try this again.

First, let's look at a post made just a couple of posts before yours.

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I first came across the term expat from OH's company, where it is used as a category of employment. That is, someone who was being temporarily seconded to an office in another country is on expatriated assignment, shortened to expat.
Is that clear? It's an assignment from a company with offices in other countries - that is, a multinational corporation.

Then you said:

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I was an immigrant in the UK for nearly 40 years and never ever heard the term 'expat' ...

perhaps proof of the pudding...
To which I responded:

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Yeah, funnily enough multinational corporations don't tend to send their brightest and best to work in Stoke on Trent and Leicester...

Because, as you well know, that's true. Neither Leicester nor Stoke on Trent are known for their attractiveness to big business. This means that during your many years living in Stoke on Trent or Leicester you are unlikely to have ever met any expats, which goes to prove that your pudding is meaningless.

Bizarrely, you responded with this:

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Which is why I was sent to work in London ... and with a special permit only given to people with high skills- unlike now, when every Tom, Doug or Stephen can go and work in Europe thanks to you know what ...

DB - honestly, your personal attacks on all my posts are just getting ridiculous- red rep too. Grow up.
First, there was no personal attack in my previous post. Nor is your experience in London particularly relevant to the point, given that you spent, as you said above, "nearly 40 years" in the UK. How many of those years were in London? How many of those years were spent in Stoke on Trent and Leicester?

You then continued with this post:

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I didn't even know the dark Midlands existed then. Beechams in London was very well known and pretty big even by London standards...Quite an experience and privilege, I must admit, to have a special permit due to my qualifications.

Mind you, even the Potteries had big international names- and to think of it, Leicester too. But that was irrelevant to me by then, for all sorts of excellent reasons.
Again, we're delighted that you received a special permit because you're brilliant, but it doesn't change the fact that there aren't very many expats in either Stoke on Trent or Leicester because there aren't many multinational corporations with offices there.

And yeah, sure the Potteries had "big international names" (not sure about the plural there, but I'll let it pass): that's because they started there! And Wedgwood is hardly in the same league as Price Waterhouse Cooper or UBS, is it?

Now, isn't it about time you mentioned UK teachers' holidays to support your non-existent argument again?
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  #85  
Old 03.01.2017, 11:56
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

I was an expat despite never having worked for a multinational.

Tom
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  #86  
Old 03.01.2017, 11:56
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

An expat is literally that - ex patria - out of their homeland. As such, anyone who considers themselves a temporary resident and are there only because their skills are in demand or they can afford to retire in the host company. An immigrant has moved with the intention of permanently making a life in the new country - it has, in effect, become their new patria.

The idea that an expat is someone from a 'white' country comes from the fact that until only recently did Westerners have the education to gain 'in-demand' skills and as people tend to retire to cheaper, warmer climes, non Westerners didn't have much incentive to move. So while this prejudice can still exist, it's quite false and is declining.

Reading racism into it is just a little bit hysterical.
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So what do you suggest that I read instead?
Something with a spine.
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  #87  
Old 03.01.2017, 11:58
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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I was an expat despite never having worked for a multinational.

Tom
You're still a specialist in your field, though.

I can assure you there aren't many specialists of any kind in the aforementioned post-industrial hellholes, unless you count breaking and entering and twocking as "specialisms".
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  #88  
Old 03.01.2017, 12:08
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

Oh dear DB ...

'Because, as you well know, that's true. Neither Leicester nor Stoke on Trent are known for their attractiveness to big business. This means that during your many years living in Stoke on Trent or Leicester you are unlikely to have ever met any expats'

you'd be amazed actually. Olivetti, Bostik, Dupont and all the big fashion companies had many expats working there. We even had a big Swiss company - but this is neither here nor there. Best not to respond as you seem very angry lately.
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  #89  
Old 03.01.2017, 12:26
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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Now I am still here, married to a Swiss lady since eleven years and since four years have a Swiss citizenship.
You're an immigrant. An exceptionally well-integrated immigrant.
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  #90  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:17
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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I was an expat despite never having worked for a multinational.

Tom
Maybe, but almost all the "expats" I know came here through one of these multinationals..but I guess after let's say 10 years or more of living here few people still consider themselves "expats".
Wait..why does this term have a negative connotation again?
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  #91  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:26
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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Maybe, but almost all the "expats" I know came here through one of these multinationals..
Clearly, we don't frequent the same circles.

Few that I know did.

Tom
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  #92  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:27
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

what are you if you start off as an expat, then stay but never gain citizenship? just curious...
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  #93  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:31
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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Clearly, we don't frequent the same circles.

Few that I know did.

Tom
But you live in Ticino!


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what are you if you start off as an expat, then stay but never gain citizenship? just curious...
..a lazy foreigner? :-) (I'm kidding)
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  #94  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:31
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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what are you if you start off as an expat, then stay but never gain citizenship? just curious...
Then you're a dodgy foreigner.

Tom
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  #95  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:33
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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But you live in Ticino!
Not always been the case.

Tom
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  #96  
Old 03.01.2017, 13:35
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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what are you if you start off as an expat, then stay but never gain citizenship? just curious...
What about the second- and even third-generation non-Swiss-citizens, mainly of Italian and German heritage? Then you have a special title conferred upon you: secundo.
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  #97  
Old 03.01.2017, 14:10
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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what are you if you start off as an expat, then stay but never gain citizenship? just curious...
Depends. Within the EU this is not unusual amongst EU citizens as citizenship of their host countries would afford them little or nothing.
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  #98  
Old 03.01.2017, 14:14
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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What about the second- and even third-generation non-Swiss-citizens, mainly of Italian and German heritage? Then you have a special title conferred upon you: secundo.
For the most part secundos tend to get citizenship, when is all that differs, depending upon gender. Women will apply as soon as possible, men will wait until around 40, so they can avoid both military service and the tax if you don't do it.

Are there really many who don't bother getting citizens beyond that? Third generation?
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Old 03.01.2017, 14:16
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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Why The Guardian will publish something like that?...

TexasT's post has the right point so I remembered that there is such a thing as English Oxford Dictionary:

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"
immigrant - a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country;
expat - a person who lives outside their native country;
"

So, there is difference between the two, and I do not see how someone can say that an immigrant is a lower class citizen than an expat.

More than that, I think that an expat becomes an immigrant when it decides to live permanently in the country were he was only residing temporary. Also, an immigrant can become an expat by temporarily moving in another country than its native or adoptive countries.

This can be debated in many ways, always interesting to read the EF posts...
Simply put:
- people from poor countries tend to immigrate to other, richer countries to seek a better life.
- some successful people get sent by their employer to some other country or decide to live for a few years in another country.

There will be a statistical significant amount of people from certain countries that are more likely to identify themselves as immigrants and other countries where nationals living in CH see themselves as expats. You want to have a simple test wether somebody is an expat or an immigrant? Ask them if they plan to take on the Swiss nationality... it's a lot of effort and only makes sense if you plan to stay here "significantly more than 5 years". If you are willing to go through that process do you likely plan to stay...

I do not think that within Europe the lines are as clear as they used to be - I know several well educated and successful business folks who decided to become expats in the "poorer" part of the continent. But the bottom line is clear: If I'd take on a job in London would I not do so with the plan to settle down there. I'd stay for some years, make some money, spend some more and enjoy the experience.

I used to have a client in London which did business all over Africa and moved some of his African staff to the London office. Not one of the ones I knew better had any plans or intention to move back home... Is this racist? I don't think so. I'd do the exact same if I were in their situation. The simple fact is that at the moment Europe is on average richer than most other parts of the planet. Nothing to do with skin color. Gets even more apparent when you look at Asia: When I was living in Singapore did I have mostly "expat" friends. But many of them were not white or European. Most Japanese or Koreans only take on a job for some years with the plan to move back. They are expats. Other Asians, from Malaysians over Chinese or Philipinos to Indians on the other hand tend to move there to stay. I'd bet my money that this has way more to do with the GDP of your home country than the color of your skin.
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  #100  
Old 03.01.2017, 15:03
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Re: Are you a expat or a ???????

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For the most part secundos tend to get citizenship, when is all that differs, depending upon gender. Women will apply as soon as possible, men will wait until around 40, so they can avoid both military service and the tax if you don't do it.

Are there really many who don't bother getting citizens beyond that? Third generation?
You'd be surprised. From the ever-reliable swissinfo.ch (January 2016):

"Around 500,000 people living in Switzerland were born in the country to immigrant parents. But being born in Switzerland, which has a total population of 8.2 million, doesn’t automatically result in Swiss citizenship, unlike for example in the United States.

"Of these 500,000, about a third have become Swiss nationals. The remaining 350,000 – who for various reasons have not applied for a Swiss passport – are included in the oft-repeated (and official) statistic that a quarter of the Swiss population is foreign."

If those stats are correct, then some 17% or so of the furrners living in Switzerland were born here. I'm confident that a fairly large proportion of those have parents who were, themselves, born in Switzerland.
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