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Old 06.01.2017, 10:39
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The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

A new "Amazing Places" video by Tom Scott, in which he tries to answer the question, if a baby is born in the middle of Lake Constance, whose citizenship will it have anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwHj4lj3F-k
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Old 06.01.2017, 10:46
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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A new "Amazing Places" video by Tom Scott, in which he tries to answer the question, if a baby is born in the middle of Lake Constance, whose citizenship will it have anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwHj4lj3F-k
The answer is simple: The citizenship of it's parents.
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Old 06.01.2017, 10:47
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

Considering both Switzerland and Austria go by jus sanguinis, and Germany a mixture of jus sanguinis and jus soli, then the child will almost certainly have the citizenship of its parents.
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Old 06.01.2017, 11:02
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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Germany a mixture of jus sanguinis and jus soli, then the child will almost certainly have the citizenship of its parents.
yeah? Since when?
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Old 06.01.2017, 11:07
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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yeah? Since when?
Since 2000

Wikipedia reference-linkGerman_nationality_law
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Old 06.01.2017, 11:24
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

There is one member here whose location is 'in the middle of Lake Geneva' - I always wonder where he pays his taxes
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Old 06.01.2017, 11:25
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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<<The reformed law makes it somewhat easier for foreigners resident in Germany on a long-term basis, and especially their children born in Germany, to acquire German citizenship.>>
yeah but we got that in Switzerland too, born and schooled here makes acquiring Swiss citizenship easier. Probably the same in Austria.
But being born to Swiss parents abroad I didn't have to acquire it - I just had it the moment they knew of my excistence. (Which was probably done at the Swiss embassy .... don't know, obviously didn't do it myself and can't ask my father anymore).
So the baby on the Lake Constance will have the nationality of it's parents. E basta. LOL.
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Old 06.01.2017, 11:41
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

Simple. All regulated do the last dot. Übereinkommen zwischen der Schweiz und den Bodensee-Uferstaaten betreffend das Verfahren bei Beurkundung von Geburts- und Sterbefällen auf dem Bodensee oder wenn eine Leiche aus dem See aufgenommen wird

Agreement between Switzerland and and the other bordering states to the Lake Costance regarding the procedure of certification of births and death on the Lake Constance an in the case a dead body is retrieved from the lake.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...016/index.html
It is from 16 March 1880.

In case the something happens near the shore the nearest commune is responsible. If not near the shore than the commune of the vessels home port is responsible.

In case of a retrieved dead body the vessels home port on which the body is heaved is responsible.

The agreement does not say anything about water births and retrieved new borns.

Just in case you are a foreigner residing in Germany and you go into labor on the Friedrichshafen-Romanshorn ferry. The ferry's home port is Romanshorn Switzerland. If your child needs the German citizenship you need to find a German vessel ASAP.
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Old 06.01.2017, 12:20
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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Just in case you are a foreigner residing in Germany and you go into labor on the Friedrichshafen-Romanshorn ferry. The ferry's home port is Romanshorn Switzerland. If your child needs the German citizenship you need to find a German vessel ASAP.
Hold it cowboy, not so fast

The line is a joint operation between the Swiss SBS AG (SBS) and the German Bodensee-Schiffsbetriebe GmbH (BSB). It is serviced by the three ships Romanshorn(owned by SBS), Friedrichshafen (owned by BSB) and Euregia.

The Euregia, as suggested by her name, was commissioned in the spirit of the Euregio Bodensee thus BSB and SBS own 50% each. She even has two home ports, Romanshorn and Friedrichshafen.

So if a child were born on the Euregia it would be far from clear which country the child would be assigned to. Probably the easiest thing would be to adjust the official birth time to when the ferry is near the shore again; tough luck if the parents want the child registered under the other port though. Or perhaps the port she came from would count as both are also home port.
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Old 06.01.2017, 12:30
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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There is one member here whose location is 'in the middle of Lake Geneva' - I always wonder where he pays his taxes
It is not clear where someone living in the middle of Lake Constance would pay taxes, unless that person is an American or an Eritrean. American and Eritrean citizens file taxes in their "home countries", in addition to paying taxes where they reside and whose services they use.

There is some good news on horizon for America and Eritrea, who might feel lonely with their citizenship-based taxation scheme. Bankrupt Zimbabwe may also be taxing its diaspora soon:

http://zimmetro.net/index-id-front+page-zk-19691.html
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Old 06.01.2017, 13:31
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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There is one member here whose location is 'in the middle of Lake Geneva' - I always wonder where he pays his taxes
Probably in Vaud, perhaps in Valais or the Haute Savoir? As very little of Lac Lemain is in Geneva probably not there.
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Old 06.01.2017, 13:44
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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Probably in Vaud, perhaps in Valais or the Haute Savoir? As very little of Lac Lemain is in Geneva probably not there.
It's spelled Lac Lamain because "main" (= hand) is a feminine noun.



Where's that extra-large icon?!?
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Old 06.01.2017, 13:58
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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It's spelled Lac Lamain because "main" (= hand) is a feminine noun.



Where's that extra-large icon?!?
Somehow the icy roads swept you off to Canada?
Ours is lac Léman ....
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Old 06.01.2017, 14:05
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

Some other things wrong in the video:

The border in the Untersee (The part of Lake Constance west of Constance and south of Reichenau) is well defined. (Is it actually part of Lake Constance? As between the Untersee and the main part of the lake is the river Rhine which flows through Constance)

Vertrag zwischen der Schweizerischen Eidgenossenschaft und dem Grossherzogtum Baden betreffend Grenzbereinigung
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...003/index.html

Switzerlands official view regarding international borders on the rest of Lake Constance is: Not defined. See official maps at http://map.geo.admin.ch
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Old 06.01.2017, 14:11
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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Hold it cowboy, not so fast

The line is a joint operation between the Swiss SBS AG (SBS) and the German Bodensee-Schiffsbetriebe GmbH (BSB). It is serviced by the three ships Romanshorn(owned by SBS), Friedrichshafen (owned by BSB) and Euregia.

The Euregia, as suggested by her name, was commissioned in the spirit of the Euregio Bodensee thus BSB and SBS own 50% each. She even has two home ports, Romanshorn and Friedrichshafen.

So if a child were born on the Euregia it would be far from clear which country the child would be assigned to. Probably the easiest thing would be to adjust the official birth time to when the ferry is near the shore again; tough luck if the parents want the child registered under the other port though. Or perhaps the port she came from would count as both are also home port.
it is even more interesting if you take the plane: an Austrian airline offering flights between Altenrhein (CH) and Friedrichshafen (DE)

have a look at http://www.peoples.at/
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Old 06.01.2017, 14:38
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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yeah but we got that in Switzerland too, born and schooled here makes acquiring Swiss citizenship easier.
No you don't have that in Switzerland. At all.
1. The citizenship is in Germany a federal matter, the same laws apply to everyone in the same way. In Switzerland do you technically become a citizen of your Gemeinde and through that the Kanton and the country. The rules vary heavily depending of the Kanton you live in. In many parts do you still go through a public vote and for a long time have people with certain names had disadvantages...
2. The process is way faster and easier in Germany... and you can do so after a much shorter time period.
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Old 06.01.2017, 17:34
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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it is even more interesting if you take the plane: an Austrian airline offering flights between Altenrhein (CH) and Friedrichshafen (DE)

have a look at http://www.peoples.at/
That's a common setup for international flights, isn't it? I don't see how that's remarkable as each "component" (airports, airplane) has a clear nationality at all times, including the airplane on foreign ground as (like ships and embassies) it's considered an etraterritorial area that is still part of its home country.
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Old 06.01.2017, 18:02
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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Some other things wrong in the video:

The border in the Untersee (The part of Lake Constance west of Constance and south of Reichenau) is well defined. (Is it actually part of Lake Constance? As between the Untersee and the main part of the lake is the river Rhine which flows through Constance)
It is. The Bodensee consists of the Obersee (the big area), the Überlingersee (the Obersee's northwestern appendix) and the Untersee.
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Vertrag zwischen der Schweizerischen Eidgenossenschaft und dem Grossherzogtum Baden betreffend Grenzbereinigung
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...003/index.html

Switzerlands official view regarding international borders on the rest of Lake Constance is: Not defined. See official maps at http://map.geo.admin.ch
This is really a surprise.

Interestingly Switzerland has a clear view as the official common border length of 362km includes the Obersee whereas Germany says it's 316km but excludes the Obersee.

Nonetheless many Swiss maps show one, including from OrellFüssli, they typically depict it like this.
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Old 06.01.2017, 18:06
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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No you don't have that in Switzerland. At all.
1. The citizenship is in Germany a federal matter, the same laws apply to everyone in the same way. In Switzerland do you technically become a citizen of your Gemeinde and through that the Kanton and the country. The rules vary heavily depending of the Kanton you live in. In many parts do you still go through a public vote and for a long time have people with certain names had disadvantages...
2. The process is way faster and easier in Germany... and you can do so after a much shorter time period.
Isn't it correct to say that in Germany you have a right to naturalization once the criteria are met? Not so in Switzerland.
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Old 06.01.2017, 20:03
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Re: The Confusing Borders of Lake Constance

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No you don't have that in Switzerland. At all.
1. The citizenship is in Germany a federal matter, the same laws apply to everyone in the same way. In Switzerland do you technically become a citizen of your Gemeinde and through that the Kanton and the country. The rules vary heavily depending of the Kanton you live in. In many parts do you still go through a public vote and for a long time have people with certain names had disadvantages...
2. The process is way faster and easier in Germany... and you can do so after a much shorter time period.
Okay, in canton Zurich we do (watched it numerous times) .....

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Isn't it correct to say that in Germany you have a right to naturalization once the criteria are met? Not so in Switzerland.
.... minus that
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