Bit touchy are we? Watch what you like - that was my point.

You obviously don't understand how this works, do you?

If I wasn't now subsidising you - I'd be paying exactly what I was before and so would you. But now I'm paying more, and you are paying less - for the same service we had before.

That's a subsidy in my book.

I don't believe they are on every issue they vote on. Sorry but if they are, there no way some stuff would have gone through.

But, in defense of direct democracy - and according to the Swiss that I know, it works but it's nowhere near perfect.

Now I know you've got comprehension problems. You really misunderstood my point here.


Yes, my wife used to know him quite well.

But you missed my point again - it was the Australian open - in Australia. You could have watched it on numerous commercial pay-per-view channels - why did it need to be free?
If you watch a sporting event live (apart from marathons etc), it's not free is it?

Welcome to Switzerland. Surely the outrageous cost of services doesn't come as a surprise to you, does it?

It's a lot cheaper than it used to be under Billag. It's strange that people pick a moment when the fee has been reduced significantly to start complaining about value. People also had to pay the Billag fee even if they never watched ANY TV and never listened to ANY radio broadcast, if they had the remotest possibility to do so. It was also a.fee for simply having the capacity to consume broadcasts. So nothing has changed, except that the cost has come down. I don't really see the grounds for militancy, civil disobedience and class action lawsuits.

And I don't buy the suggestion that everybody complaining here was exempted from Billag and is upset that five years from now, they'll be required to pay a fee for a service they never consume and are totally incapable of consuming.

For single people like myself who previously only paid for radio, the fee has more than doubled.

I hear Serafe's replaced Billag's catapults with battering rams.

So you cheated Billag for years. Too bad, now you'll have to pay. Or are you trying to tell us that you're borrowing a friend's computer and internet connection to post here, and you proudly carry a 1987 Nokia mobile phone?

It was quite clearly explained. It wasn't difficult to opt out of the TV part.

It's not as if someone would willingly own a huge ugly plastic rectangular eyesore in the corner of their sitting room if they never turned it on, would they?

Same here
Got no TV, no radio, no car (hence no radio).
Forced to pay stuff I could not care less, under the pretense that I may.

Interestingly enough, this company does not even seem to have premises, only a post box.

So adjust the services you receive accordingly...opt out.

Welcome to the club!
Even not having radio I was paying the bill for the radio only.
And now...

Can I use cuss words in here?

Paying for being "capable of consuming tv/radio" means that, on no valid grounds, you can be charged, say, for groceries because you are capable of consuming them; even if they never made it into your fridge, nor in your mouth.

Same principle.

When God had finished creating Switzerland in outline, he said to the first Swiss: “I shall grant you three wishes. What would you like?” “Well, first of all, imposing mountains.” And the Lord created the most magnificent mountains. “What else? No need to be shy.” “Green, juicy meadows with cows that will produce a lot of excellent milk.” And God created green meadows with excellent dairy cattle. The Swiss milked one of the cows, and tasted the milk. “Is it good?” God asked. “Excellent! Taste it Yourself, Lord!” and he passed God a glass of milk. “You’re right, it is excellent,” God said. “And what would you like now?” “Five francs for the glass of milk,” the Swiss replied.

I think we discussed this before, but anyway.

Seeing not even the police have the right to break in or search your appartment without a warrant, I very much doubt that BAKOM have that right.

Of course they can get a search warrant, and no doubt there will be judges who comply with their wishes. But it will cost them time and money, and if they find no evidence in say three consecutive raids, the judge may be loathe to give them another warrant if they can produuce no evidence first.

But even so, I don't expect there to be dawn raids on a massive scale. And seeing such a raid can easily cost BAKOM a four figure sum, that's an awful lot of licence fees being thrown into the wind and thus not being turned over to SRG.

Especially if you consider that the majority of those who opt out either genuinely don't have any devices, or know how to hide them. So the theoretical 4000 CHF fine will not cover the costs overall.

The people who made a sport out of wasting Billag's time and money are in for really sweet sweepstakes now.

I say, let them bring it on.

And don't forget the popcorn.

This is what it says on the back of the opt out form: ''Das BAKOM kann die Räumlichkeiten eines nach Absatz 1 befreiten Haushalts betreten, um zu überprüfen, ob die Voraussetzungen für die Befreiung gegeben sind''

You know that BAKOM are a bunch of suits in an office right? Many of them no doubt struggling against baldness and pot bellies. Black helicopters are not part of their inventory.

Wrong. It's suits that give the orders to the helicopter pilots.

Quick question, since I don't see someone quite in my situation here. I currently live alone but am ending my lease and moving to a WG with 3 other people at the end of Feb. I just got my Serafe bill for 6 months and am wondering if there is any possibility of a partial refund once I move? Or will I just be silently thanked for my (involuntary) generosity?

(Also didn't see anything relevant to that on the notice, but could be my German isn't good enough yet!)

Not necessarily (cheated). A friend of mine only payed for radio for decades now.
But he had to argue a long time, had his tv-thingy sealed back then.

He truly never watches tv - not on internet either.

I've not heard him moan about the new system though.
Don't remember what he voted but he was never into flogging dead horses.

And yet, that's just the way things are here. But go ahead, contribute to our groaner's crowdfunded prosecution of SRF, and refuse to pay Serafe. This should be entertaining.

And once again, why should non-drivers be forced to pay taxes earmarked for roads? Why should we all subsidise Post buses for remote Innerschwyz dwellers? Why don't we only pay for the fire brigade when we need them to put a fire out? Etc...

Yes, notably by me, among others.

That's the problem. Too many people "opted out" (or just didn't pay), so now we have this situation: everybody pays.

This was voted for by the majority of Swiss voters and by a majority of cantons. That's the way they want it, and this is the country we're all living in.

No, they didn't have to, Billag was not compulsory. If you didn't pay it and/or didn't reply, nothing ever happened. How do I know this? More than 15 years experience.

BUt why were you paying it? It was entirely optional.