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Old 12.03.2017, 20:10
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Threats and swiss law

Hi all.

If someone receives a message, be it on the Internet, sms or however, which has an implied threat of physical violence, danger to family or the like, can you approach the police and ask for help? I.e. No crime directly has been committed but the message is sinister.

Thanks
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Old 12.03.2017, 20:11
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Re: Threats and swiss law

Yes, cyber crime is not only phishing. What they can do? Depends on whether the originator can be traced?
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Old 12.03.2017, 20:16
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Re: Threats and swiss law

Or wheather your perception of the message is correctly interpreted.
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Old 12.03.2017, 20:41
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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Hi all.

If someone receives a message, be it on the Internet, sms or however, which has an implied threat of physical violence, danger to family or the like, can you approach the police and ask for help? I.e. No crime directly has been committed but the message is sinister.

Thanks
If it's the case that you can, it seems to me like I ought to have reported one or two of the posters on here for their messages.

That said, in 25 years of electronic communications, I've yet to meet an internet tough guy who was actually ready to follow through...
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Old 12.03.2017, 20:43
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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Yes, cyber crime is not only phishing. What they can do? Depends on whether the originator can be traced?
I think in today's age finding a perpetrator is nigh on impossible, I was more wondering whether they would help if no crime had been committed but a threat was there, for example by checking up on your property or giving out a panic alarm or the like. I find Swiss police can be quite black or white, either really helpful or really exceptionally unhelpful. I was wondering if the legal eagles in the forum knew the position on this.
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Old 12.03.2017, 20:50
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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I think in today's age finding a perpetrator is nigh on impossible, I was more wondering whether they would help if no crime had been committed but a threat was there, for example by checking up on your property or giving out a panic alarm or the like. I find Swiss police can be quite black or white, either really helpful or really exceptionally unhelpful. I was wondering if the legal eagles in the forum knew the position on this.
Go to the police and ask? Unless you know who is threatening you they probably cannot and will not do much. If you read the stories on stalkers it seems the legal possibilities are very limited.

But they will have advice for you on how to react, behave, protect yourself and your family.

Good luck!
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Old 12.03.2017, 20:51
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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If it's the case that you can, it seems to me like I ought to have reported one or two of the posters on here for their messages.

That said, in 25 years of electronic communications, I've yet to meet an internet tough guy who was actually ready to follow through...

Which it is always so amusing to read various posts about retaliation on this forum.

Very few people will follow through, plenty of hot air but very little action, electronic or otherwise
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Old 12.03.2017, 21:16
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Re: Threats and swiss law

http://www.sodk.ch/en/fachbereiche/f...lfe-schweizch/
Swiss National Victims' Help

http://www.sodk.ch/en/fachbereiche/f...-centres/#c407
Their Counselling Centres

Anyone may approach this organisation - for free -, which not only provides emergency help for victims, but also answers questions about violence and threats.
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Old 12.03.2017, 22:13
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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Hi all.

If someone receives a message, be it on the Internet, sms or however, which has an implied threat of physical violence, danger to family or the like, can you approach the police and ask for help? I.e. No crime directly has been committed but the message is sinister.

Thanks
I believe the question should be if you truly feel in danger, are you truly and honestly in fear of your life?

If you believe that threat has any substance you should go immediately to the authorities specially if your address is public.

Besides there is no context to the question, and i feel like this is a very context dependent question.

EDIT: i have absolutely no context or knowledge of the setting, or even knowledge of the place this question is coming from but i can savely say that common sense is king in this respect.
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Old 12.03.2017, 22:17
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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I think in today's age finding a perpetrator is nigh on impossible, I was more wondering whether they would help if no crime had been committed but a threat was there, for example by checking up on your property or giving out a panic alarm or the like. I find Swiss police can be quite black or white, either really helpful or really exceptionally unhelpful. I was wondering if the legal eagles in the forum knew the position on this.
I wouldn't be so sure, especially here in CH .. Your anonymity on the internet only goes as far as the resources available to track you down.

Here in CH even a pay as you go mobile has to be registered with some form of proper ID.

Obviously unknown what exactly you are dealing with, but it's unlikely the sender has taken CIA type precautions to hide their identity. An SMS has a phone number associated, an email has an IP address associated.. It just might be that simple.. If the cops were interested they may be able to find the sender with one call to the provider.
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Old 13.03.2017, 10:17
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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Hi all.

If someone receives a message, be it on the Internet, sms or however, which has an implied threat of physical violence, danger to family or the like, can you approach the police and ask for help? I.e. No crime directly has been committed but the message is sinister.

Thanks
Yes, criminal code §180 and §181. The means used don't matter, though electronic means simplify proving. The threat need be credible and serious, which probably requires a multitude of threats and more than "implied". One extreme case led to a 6-month unconditional prison sentence after three penalty orders had had no effect.
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Old 13.03.2017, 10:55
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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I was wondering if the legal eagles in the forum knew the position on this.
Not a legal eagle but have experience of this in the UK. Any legal person worth their salt will argue that harassment is totally dependent on how the message or gesture is received, not how it's given. Just as an example... A happily married friend began to find a single red rose on her car windscreen at the end of her working day. For the first week, she laughed it off and made her small team of colleagues aware that it was a sweet gesture but she was happily married. By the fourth week, she was too scared to walk to her car alone after work, and it was her boss who got the police involved.

Definitely speak to the police, because you wouldn't post about this matter here if it wasn't affecting you in some way.
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Old 13.03.2017, 12:30
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Re: Threats and swiss law

Of course you can go to the police and ask for help. Art. 180 and 181 Criminal Code were rightly mentioned (https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...083/index.html).

Formally, you should lodge a criminal complaint (art. 30 CC) and you can also constitute yourself a private claimant and request to participate in the penal proceedings, ask protective measures, etc. (art. 115 ff. Criminal Procedure Code, https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...319/index.html)

If you do not have the means to pay an attorney, you may even ask for legal aid (ie. to be assisted by an attorney free of charge, art.
136 ff. Criminl Procedure Code).

You should definitely secure any evidence (email, screenshots, witnesses, etc) and annex them to your complaint.

Depending on the case, further action might be appropriate and the police and/or your attorney might provide further info.

Good luck!
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Old 13.03.2017, 12:58
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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You should definitely secure any evidence (email, screenshots, witnesses, etc) and annex them to your complaint.
Good point! Blueangel's colleage, finding the roses, would have had a stronger argument if she had a photo of each day's rose. If the matter escalatates, it would be good to be able to show the interim steps.
For this reason, log and date everything. If any of the threats arrive electronically, do not delete them, if on paper, do not destroy the papers, etc. If there are witnesses, ask them to confirm, in writing, what they heard and saw.

And - if you work out who it is threatening you - then write to him/her (ideally by registered mail, keeping a copy and a receipt) stating, in plain, non-emotional terms, with no ultimatum and no threat, that he/she should desist.
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Old 13.03.2017, 13:40
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Re: Threats and swiss law

Hi Mikers,

It seems you already have a few good pointers from the other users, specially when it comes to the law.

I just would like to give you an extra tip: access your case carefully, but do not hesitate in looking for help. I had a "little" hiccup with a net-stalker, and I just let it escalate to the point it could have turned into a bloody mess. Looking back, I wish I had stopped blaming myself for, well, being a victim, and had contacted the proper authorities at the correct time. It would have helped a lot with my sleep and overall health.

If you feel threatened, look for help. To put it in a way easy to understand, abuse is not only physical.
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Old 13.03.2017, 14:06
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Re: Threats and swiss law

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Blueangel's colleage, finding the roses, would have had a stronger argument if she had a photo of each day's rose.
She posted photos of the first few on facebook, then again a couple of weeks later in case it was a 'friend's' idea of a joke.

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For this reason, log and date everything. If any of the threats arrive electronically, do not delete them, if on paper, do not destroy the papers, etc. If there are witnesses, ask them to confirm, in writing, what they heard and saw.
Definitely do not delete them if received electronically.
I was already logging and writing down the messages I received at the request of my solicitor, and this was in the days when mobile phones only stored 10 text messages. When they became threats, the police said I must not delete them until they visited me at home and saw them for themselves. There's a huge temptation to just block the person's method of contact, but please don't until you've got help.
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Old 13.03.2017, 14:15
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Re: Threats and swiss law

You can fill out the form of KOBIK ("Swiss Cybercrime Coordination Unit") which will have a look at it and forward it to the competent (cantonal) authority for follow up:
https://www.cybercrime.admin.ch/kobi...eformular.html
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