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  #81  
Old 06.04.2017, 18:00
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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yuk. who wants to eat fresh water fish!
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On the other hand, the fish I ate weren't so nice. Muddy tasting.
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btw. getting meat hear is still waaaaaaaay easier than getting an edible fish
Exactly.

I do think eating meat everyday is weighing on a human system. I think we only do it because it kills hunger so efficiently and for a long time but not because we'd really need it. The countries with the highest meat consumptions have the highest rates of colonic and rectal cancers (CZ no. 1). I blame the saussages. Whether high quality meat couses this...probably.
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Old 06.04.2017, 18:06
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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...or eating out. Thinking of it, when I was a student it didn't even cross my mind to eat out, like in a proper restaurant - well, anything else apart from a slice of pizza and a kebab, that kind of stuff.

I could have spent hours at a table with my friends, just with an Ice Tea or a beer. I just knew it's part of the student deal.
This. I agree...same for me. Minus the ice-tea (not a big fan unless it's the weird southern way), and minus the beer.

But considering red meat (which can be dry or tough), we need food that takes effort to chew. Hard foods. Meat can require effort and that is good. How minced and "pre-chewed" our nutrition has gotten is not good for our dental health. I think food that gives resistence to our teeth is necessary, evolutionarily..and these days it seems that it is only meat. Oder?
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  #83  
Old 06.04.2017, 18:10
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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But considering red meat (which can be dry or tough), we need food that takes effort to chew. Hard foods. Meat can require effort and that is good. How minced and "pre-chewed" our nutrition has gotten is not good for our dental health. I think food that gives resistance to our teeth is necessary, evolutionary..and these days it seems that it is only meat. Oder?
I think that's not quite right, though. According to a speech-therapist I know who treats children, it's often the younger kids who don't eat "challenging" or chewy foods that have a delay in their speech development. I don't think it matters a fig if you are an adult eating mush all day; you already have muscle memory for speech.
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  #84  
Old 06.04.2017, 18:13
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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...or eating out. Thinking of it, when I was a student it didn't even cross my mind to eat out, like in a proper restaurant - well, anything else apart from a slice of pizza and a kebab, that kind of stuff.

I could have spent hours at a table with my friends, just with an Ice Tea or a beer. I just knew it's part of the student deal.
luckily as a student, we had the BSE crisis.

my friend and I went to all the shops and bought so many KGs of beef being sold for next to nothing that we ate steak for the rest of the term!
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  #85  
Old 06.04.2017, 18:33
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

Has nothing to do with speech, the motion our teeth towards the front center during life. It is less likely to happen apparently, to have teeth crammed in the front center, if people eat hard to chew foods. Meat is one of them, I think.
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Old 06.04.2017, 18:58
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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Seen from this angle everything's too cheap.

No cars, no holidays by plane would go a long ways in that direction. Get rid of central heating, limit daily commuting, ban products manufactured overseas (mostly in Asia) from local shops and you're probably there.

Perhaps also get rid of stuff that relies on rare earth elements as their production is very damaging to the environment. So also ban solar cells, all modern accus (including those in hybrid cars and cell phones), LEDs, most screen types, and probably a whole lot more.

Who's willing to go that far? Who's willing to give up their current lifestyle?
I'm not trying to argue that one shouldn't eat meat. That's a personal decision everybody has to make for oneself.

But to quickly address your points: reducing meat consumption is very easily done, there are many easily available, cheap and healthy alternatives. It is true that we could reduce the release of greenhouse gases by reducing traveling and by not relying too much on all sorts of electronic gimmicks. However, one should keep in mind, that firstly agriculture is one of the main reasons for greenhouse gas release (up to a third according to these studies, of course this does not only include meat production) and secondly that not using computers or cars are options that are not easily available to many people, e.g. as they are a necessity to make an income.

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Perhaps with meat but milk is definitely too cheap. Loads of Swiss farmers (and other European farmers) are getting out of dairy as they can't make an income out of it.
True. However, I still stand by my unpopular opinion
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  #87  
Old 06.04.2017, 20:04
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

Pha, amateur*, my opinion is much less popular:
"Kill people, breed cows"

*I am nicknaming you in a non offending way
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  #88  
Old 06.04.2017, 20:26
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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I am not a vegan anymore, but seriously - who would want to eat expensive meat often, any meat often, in fact.
I don't understand the question. I'm sure I'm not alone amongst meat eaters in thinking that this is like suggesting that you wouldn't want to eat chocolate every day, or drink beer, or coffee, etc. etc. Yes, it's said that all of these things are bad for us, but like everything else, moderation is the key. So 24oz T-bones are right out.

Some days I might not eat meat at all, e.g. if I'm having fish, and we eat a lot of poultry, not only red meat, so I'm not suggesting that eating meat for every meal is some sort of goal, but seriously, the idea that one would not want to is just too bizarre.
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  #89  
Old 06.04.2017, 20:34
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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yuk. who wants to eat fresh water fish!
We do.

Trout, char, bass, zander (my wife's sone brings us a freshly caught one from time to time), etc.

My grandparents lived on a lake. We ate freshwater fish all the time, freshly caught by me.

Tom
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  #90  
Old 06.04.2017, 20:39
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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luckily as a student, we had the BSE crisis.

my friend and I went to all the shops and bought so many KGs of beef being sold for next to nothing that we ate steak for the rest of the term!
Yes exactly, and see what it's done to you
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  #91  
Old 06.04.2017, 20:55
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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We do.

Trout, char, bass, zander (my wife's sone brings us a freshly caught one from time to time), etc.

My grandparents lived on a lake. We ate freshwater fish all the time, freshly caught by me.

Tom
anadromous fish are ok. but otherwise
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  #92  
Old 06.04.2017, 22:45
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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But to quickly address your points: reducing meat consumption is very easily done, ...
Only in theory. Like so many other things, once reality comes into play it's anything but. Otherwise people would have changed already.

Not flying into holidays, for example, would be significantly easier as it doesn't even involve changing habits.

However, everything has a price/consequences, even if it's only unfulfilled wants or desires. Obviously, changing is too "costly" for most under current circumstances.
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Old 07.04.2017, 10:09
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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But considering red meat (which can be dry or tough), we need food that takes effort to chew. Hard foods. Meat can require effort and that is good. How minced and "pre-chewed" our nutrition has gotten is not good for our dental health. I think food that gives resistence to our teeth is necessary, evolutionarily..and these days it seems that it is only meat. Oder?
I don't think so, there are also other alternatives - thick crusted breads, raw vegetables and fruits can also do the job. Red meat is good only in relatively small quantities.
I think that a good premium quality steak should be seen as a treat or at least reserved to a bit more ceremonial moments - meals with family or friends etc (not an opinion that could ever make me popular here lol)
If it is too much you don't even value anything anymore.

It's the same with desserts. When I was a child my mother would bake some cake only for Sundays (it was a question of principle not of money), guess what I remember best - the taste of her desserts or the many, anytime available cakes I gulped down during my adult years.
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Old 07.04.2017, 10:29
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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Yes exactly, and see what it's done to you
it's done absolutely nothing to moo.
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Old 13.04.2017, 12:38
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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I don't think so, there are also other alternatives - thick crusted breads, raw vegetables and fruits can also do the job..
Of course, hence my post.

Yet this is far from majority view, if you look around yourself. Most people I know really think meat should be more than just an occasional treat. I think it is an aquired craving, and the fact that physiologically, people experience that meat does the dental resilience/nutrition/saturation time tasks the fastest, the most efficiently and economically. Looking for the same amount of protein elsewhere (if avoiding animal protein), is a b...

Treats are good. I treat fasting days as treats, these days. It is certainly interesting. I do not think the OP will join in, though.
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Old 13.04.2017, 12:55
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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I always grab the sales
Check www.aktionis.ch, they're an aggregator of sales.
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Old 13.04.2017, 14:48
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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I think it is an aquired craving, and the fact that physiologically, people experience that meat does the dental resilience/nutrition/saturation time tasks the fastest, the most efficiently and economically. Looking for the same amount of protein elsewhere (if avoiding animal protein), is a b...

Treats are good. I treat fasting days as treats, these days. It is certainly interesting. I do not think the OP will join in, though.
That is a good approach of fasting if you can manage to keep it up.

Anyways, I am not surprised because I also used to eat more meat a few years ago, although probably not even half of the quantity some people think it is absolutely necessary for staying alive and well - as you said, sometimes it was more efficient, convenient. Avoiding animal protein requires more effort and meal planning, which I actually quite like to do lately. My OH had some problems with high cholesterol and he also has a family history of heart diseases (no, it doesn't happen only to old or "fat people" ), so I thought I should help him out and me too in the process, why not. I mean, for me that was the best motivation. I think cooking healthy meals (or especially healthy for some) for your family is pure love.
There are endless possibilities of playing with vegetables and grains, cereals, seeds, I like it more now. I am still not a vegan (or vegetarian), but it's fine.
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Old 13.04.2017, 16:32
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

Something interesting (and please don't hang me, it's just an observation) -- it seems to be that it's mostly women who don't want to eat meat, and men who do.
(And then the men get married and... you can imagine what happens maybe the poor guys manage to eat meat at work for lunch)
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Old 13.04.2017, 16:47
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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Something interesting (and please don't hang me, it's just an observation) -- it seems to be that it's mostly women who don't want to eat meat, and men who do.
(And then the men get married and... you can imagine what happens maybe the poor guys manage to eat meat at work for lunch)
I think it's because women are more susceptible to fads, new diets, celebrity endorsements, mystic stuff etc.
I may be wrong here though and it's not all women of course.

I'm not saying eating less meat is a bad thing either.
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Old 18.04.2017, 16:54
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Re: Why is meat so expensive in Switzerland? (and so cheap just outside CH)

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This might be an unpopular opinion, but if anything then meat is too cheap. Meat consumption is too high when compared to the recommended daily intake, it is bad for the environment and last but not least farmers (not only in Switzerland) are heavily subsidized with tax money.
Wrong
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