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Old 08.05.2017, 12:42
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PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

We are the home owners. When we bought our house there was PPE included in our contract. PPE for 4 same villas. Over 2 years ago we had some flooding problem that needed to be resolved by all 4 neighbours, one of them took all the job in her hands, opened a shares bank account for our 4 houses where we paid our part of money that was needed to cover repair bills.
Then we made a meeting to discuss future of our houses, works that may be needed etc. Neighbours decided to leave that bank account and pay monthly 100ch so we have some savings for future expenses.
And here is the problem, we never really agreed to that, but were over voted by rest of neighbours. We have not paid anything to that account and we started to receive letters from one of our neighbour(administratice of our PPE) saying that we must pay or she will take legal action. We answered her that we are not happy about paying , and keeping money just in case, that when there is a bill to pay we'll pay without any delay.
And we did this way,2 weeks ago we had some work done with drainage on shared parking. She sent us a price for the job, we paid our part of this price to shared bank account.
Today we received registered letter from office de poursuit forcing us to pay rest of our part for 2016. And here is the question, do we have to pay it? This is not any debt or something, we do not own anything to anyone. It's basically our money that we must keep on shared account just in case there will be some expenses in the future. Is there a law saying that I'm obligated to pay in to that shared account ? Please can you give me some advice
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Old 08.05.2017, 12:52
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

Many home ownership associations keep a fund for future repairs as the way to ensure that necessary funds are available for common property or interests. The details and your obligations should be written in the association bylaws.

Typically majority rules in a home owner association, but association bylaws can define some other procedure, say a supermajority or unanimous agreement for certain actions. But in general: If you are part of an association and the bylaws say majority rules, you pay if that's what the majority of your neighbors want.

I have had to pay for many things I don't want or agree with over the years (most recent our 15K letter boxes ) - that's the way the democratic ball bounces.

So... read your association bylaws.
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Old 08.05.2017, 12:53
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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We are the home owners. When we bought our house there was PPE included in our contract. PPE for 4 same villas. Over 2 years ago we had some flooding problem that needed to be resolved by all 4 neighbours, one of them took all the job in her hands, opened a shares bank account for our 4 houses where we paid our part of money that was needed to cover repair bills.
Then we made a meeting to discuss future of our houses, works that may be needed etc. Neighbours decided to leave that bank account and pay monthly 100ch so we have some savings for future expenses.
And here is the problem, we never really agreed to that, but were over voted by rest of neighbours. We have not paid anything to that account and we started to receive letters from one of our neighbour(administratice of our PPE) saying that we must pay or she will take legal action. We answered her that we are not happy about paying , and keeping money just in case, that when there is a bill to pay we'll pay without any delay.
And we did this way,2 weeks ago we had some work done with drainage on shared parking. She sent us a price for the job, we paid our part of this price to shared bank account.
Today we received registered letter from office de poursuit forcing us to pay rest of our part for 2016. And here is the question, do we have to pay it? This is not any debt or something, we do not own anything to anyone. It's basically our money that we must keep on shared account just in case there will be some expenses in the future. Is there a law saying that I'm obligated to pay in to that shared account ? Please can you give me some advice
Yes you have to pay it, if the majority of owners agree thats how it is. It is EXACTLY the same in many other countries.........
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Old 08.05.2017, 12:55
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

PPE works on the cooperative principle. If a joint decision is made, even by majority vote, all members are obliged to abide by it. It is not uncommon for PPEs to create an emergency fund via monthly payments.
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Old 08.05.2017, 12:56
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

And apparently, if you continue to ignore their payment requests, they can claim the debt against your part of the property which will make it more difficult for you to sell.
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Old 08.05.2017, 12:59
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

100% in agreement with meloncollie. There should be official annual meetings between the owners. We also had to pay for things we disagreed with.
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Old 08.05.2017, 13:04
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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100% in agreement with meloncollie. There should be official annual meetings between the owners. We also had to pay for things we disagreed with.
The neighbours had a meeting, so it would appear to be by the book.
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Old 08.05.2017, 13:09
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

I failed to see how the co-owner relationship will maintain after that...
Sending a poursuite for a few hundreds CHF, even before really discussing it properly, seems to be doomed...
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Old 08.05.2017, 13:22
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

CorsebouThe Return -Thanks for your post, that is exactly my feeling.

And for rest of answers, I'm not against PPE, or payments for the job, repairs etc., but I want to pay for it when the bill is due, not make monthly payments just in case.
I found something like that, but I don't know German so translate it through google translate. Does this apply to my situation?

https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/stock...obligatorisch/
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Old 08.05.2017, 13:25
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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I failed to see how the co-owner relationship will maintain after that...
Sending a poursuite for a few hundreds CHF, even before really discussing it properly, seems to be doomed...
the relationship will be that the OP just pays and the rest make the decisions.
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Old 08.05.2017, 13:29
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

Not really. Google Translate:

"Floor: Is the renewal fund obligatory?
Saldo 11/2008 of 10 June 2008
Of bw

Two years ago we bought an apartment in a multi-family house. The shareholders' meeting recently decided to renovate the façade. We must pay the costs according to our value. Is there not necessarily a renewal fund for this?

No. There is no legal obligation to set up a renewal fund. Whoever buys an apartment should therefore pay attention to whether the landowner regulation provides for a renewal fund. In addition, the Community's annual balance shows how much money the Fund actually contains. This is important for the assessment of the maintenance costs to the buyer of the apartment in the coming years. The amount and amount of the renewal fund is therefore also important for the calculation of the purchase price."

As said, if the majority of the owners have voted for a renewal fund then you have to pay into it whether you agree or not. It's called democracy.
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Old 08.05.2017, 13:35
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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I'm not against PPE, or payments for the job, repairs etc., but I want to pay for it when the bill is due, not make monthly payments just in case.
The question is not what your do or do not want, what you are or are not against, but rather what are the particulars of the bylaws you agreed to when purchasing property in a PPE.

So back to my comment - read your bylaws.
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Old 08.05.2017, 14:19
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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The question is not what your do or do not want, what you are or are not against, but rather what are the particulars of the bylaws you agreed to when purchasing property in a PPE.

So back to my comment - read your bylaws.

You do not list FR as one of your languages so you need to find a friend (or I can give you the name of a PPE Administrator - who for a fee will take you through things and explain your bylaws and the meeting reports) so you understand the rules/bylaws (these are a legal agreement you took on when you purchased the property).

In addition to the bylaws, the annual and emergency meetings (that you should have been attending ?) take certain decisions that are binding to all owners. Most of them by simple majority (some by double majority, or all owners). It seems that the others with/without you have decided to put CHF into a fund for operating expenses or renovation expenses (depends on how thing/repairs are classified/outlined in the bylaws).

You now have a LEGAL problem as the administrator has used the bylaws/voted proposal to put you against the wall to get you to pay. Realise that non-payment will impact your ability to get loans (renew you mortgage ?) and possibly have an impact on your Work Permit. It should not be taken lightly.

I would pay ASAP and figure out the rest afterwards. Let me know if you want the introduction to the administrator.
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Old 08.05.2017, 14:34
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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PPE works on the cooperative principle. If a joint decision is made, even by majority vote, all members are obliged to abide by it. It is not uncommon for PPEs to create an emergency fund via monthly payments.
Yep- we agreed to buy an apartment in England, and the Committee was formed after our purchase (from new) and decisions on rules for the development made some time later. NO DOGS - we were vastly out-voted, and there is nothing we can do. We would have never bought it had we known- despite the fact we absolutely love the flat and the perfect location. We still took Slinky on holiday with us- and were extra careful - carrying him off the grounds, never leaving him alone in case he barked- and they closed a blind eye as it is only a couple of weeks at a time. If we ever go back to live in UK- we would have to sell and move to a house with a small garden where dogs and cats could come. Lucky that it has appreciated greatly in value, compared to houses.
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Old 08.05.2017, 14:39
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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Yep- we agreed to buy an apartment in England, and the Committee was formed after our purchase (from new) and decisions on rules for the development made some time later. NO DOGS - we were vastly out-voted, and there is nothing we can do. We would have never bought it had we known- despite the fact we absolutely love the flat and the perfect location.
What is written in the lease in the UK is what matters, the committee can NOT make any such changes. I think someone is having you over as they can only ask you not to have a dog, if the lease is silent on the matter.
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Old 08.05.2017, 15:04
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

We are owners- we bought from new, and the Committee was formed after the purchase from all the new owners. The rules for the lease were made by said Committee- us included- we were outvoted.

PPE committees are always formed by the owners- once most or all the apartments are sold- so their decisions are not known at the time of purchase if you buy from new. Of course anyone buying a vacant apartment would know exactly what the rules are, now. My brother had the same situation with the apartment they bought from new refurb above Montreux- committee formed after purchase and rules made then.
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Old 08.05.2017, 15:10
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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We are owners- we bought from new, and the Committee was formed after the purchase from all the new owners. The rules for the lease were made by said Committee- us included- we were outvoted.
I don't believe that to be correct, you should consult the solicitor who advised with your purchase.
The terms of the lease can NOT be altered by 1 party & continue will for the entire period as stated in the lease usually 99/125/999 years.
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Old 08.05.2017, 15:13
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

We did check with our solicitor - and yes it is correct. It was bought from developer with the clear understanding that Committee would be formed once majority of flats were sold- and that they would decide the owners' rules by majority. That is how it works with PPEs when you buy from new.

However, back to OP, as this is irrelevant to him. He bought with PPE in place and rules in place- and was outvoted. Nothing he can do about that and will have to pay asap or he will be in big trouble.
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Old 08.05.2017, 15:30
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

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We did check with our solicitor - and yes it is correct. It was bought from developer with the clear understanding that Committee would be formed once majority of flats were sold- and that they would decide the owners' rules by majority. That is how it works with PPEs when you buy from new.

However, back to OP, as this is irrelevant to him. He bought with PPE in place and rules in place- and was outvoted. Nothing he can do about that and will have to pay asap or he will be in big trouble.
Owners rules & terms of the lease are 2 different things. Terms of the lease can be enforced ultimately by forfeiture of the lease. Those rules I don't believe are enforceable in law, which is the only thing that is important.
As you say you knowingly have broken the rule & there has been no consequence for doing so.

As far as the OP is concerned he has to pay, as indeed you would as the provision for a service charge would be included in the lease on your flat in the UK. As always read & understand before accepting any contract.
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Old 08.05.2017, 15:48
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Re: PPE ( La propriété par étages) advice needed

Irrespective of the law, surely it makes more sense to pay a small amount monthly rather than a lump sum as and when funds are required? 100.- per month is peanuts; we were paying over 400.- into our PPE when we had the flat.
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