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  #21  
Old 18.06.2017, 00:31
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

Living in the past is never a way to pre judge how creativity is going to work in the future.
Do people care about how correct your grammar is?

If you have something to express an opinion about and it is interesting to a certain percentage of the worlds population, then the Tech is there.

How you seduce, coerce, entice and enthral your perspective followers is the secret.

Being creative means that you must have a plan. You must study your plans and dreams. Do background research.

Being creative means that you must understand your audience and how to manipulate them. (These days the platforms and methods to propagate your "creative genius" are limitless)

But most of all - you must be not beholden to outside influences - like EF and other Forums. If you ask questions like this - you are not very creative. It is not something you can buy off the shelf.

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Old 18.06.2017, 04:42
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

I like accurate grammar and I can not lie. It's important.

Not as snappy as my "I like big books and I cannot lie" tote but such is life.
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Old 18.06.2017, 05:32
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

@Sadies
It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with asking for help, and well done for stating clearly, right at the start, that you won't be able to pay for it. Many projects simply do need to rely on some free input, especially at the beginning.

Yes, I totally agree with the other posters that the kind of input you are seeking and needing is, otherwise, skilled and highly paid work, and should be repected and acknowledged as such.

Even so, anyone is free to contact you if they feel they'd like to help withouth charging you their usual fee. After all, some professionals do donate a part of their time, and besides that many people are happy to share skills in areas in which they do not work, professionally.

You may be able to do something for that person, in return. Or they may be content to know that you are helping someone else with something else, for free.

My advice to you would be to work with a few people. Great that you've already found someone who will look at your work and go through it with you! That's a good start! No matter how much you enjoy the collaboration, and benefit from it, after a while (some months or a year), try to find someone else as well or instead. Then add or move on to a third person, and so on. In that way, you are more likely to receive useful criticism and inspiration from a range of different angles.

I wish you well, and that you have lots of fun on the way to your dream!
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Old 18.06.2017, 09:12
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

What you're after is probably an editor - or something approaching that. Someone who can pick up on clumsy wording, glossing's over that need to be expanded, areas for development etc., and make corrections without changing your style. I do this for my daughter (she already had a few short stories (German) published in Switzerland, has had one play performed and another due to be performed this December in Basel (both English) - the Basel Panto "Aladdin", second weekend in December). She's currently preparing a novella and a few short stories, to see if she can get them published.

Don't underestimate the effort involved in editing, but it's worth it. If J.K.Rowling had had a decent editor, her stories might have rather more literary merit.

I suggest you find a select group of friends and family who are prepared to read your emanations and comment critically. Oh - and it's painful when people point out the flaws in your writing. Also, get this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Writers-Art...+handbook+2017 is you're interested in the UK market.
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Old 18.06.2017, 10:42
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Don't underestimate the effort involved in editing, but it's worth it. If J.K.Rowling had had a decent editor, her stories might have rather more literary merit.
But would the books have been so popular if they were grammatically correct?

It is the creativity of the concept and the presentation in her writing style to the intended audience.

J.K. Rowling's stories are shining examples of creative writing.

Just looked at the Wikipedia definition and found it quite interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_writing

I believe more of the emphasis is on the idea or concept, with writing and grammar being the canvas to express these.

This is why I find it strange that it is something that you can teach. You are either a creative person or you are not. (many people are).

The most difficult barrier is always the translation of the idea to the written word.
I suppose the question is - Do you want to do this to make money? Just as a vanity project? Hobby? Life skill?
Probably 95 percent of people (or more) make no money - just the creative writing teachers.
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  #26  
Old 18.06.2017, 12:12
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

Popular does not equal good. It is not clear if OP is after "good" or "popular".
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Old 18.06.2017, 13:17
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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........ Being creative means that you must have a plan..........
Why does that strike me as contradictory?
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Old 18.06.2017, 13:49
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Why does that strike me as contradictory?
Because it is a popular myth that creative thoughts must be executed in an unplanned manner. Figuring something out is usually spontanneous yet there is a method (pattern) for that, too. Or, many, actually. Watch creative people brainstorm

Executing the project itself yields the best results, if one plans. At least time, space...etc. Nothing to do with a need for a proofreader.

I think a bunch of us had a bit of a problem with OP requesting a free service and offering "having a good time" in return. Just sounds weird. Somebody can fix my telephone, pls, or can teach me French for free?

We should set up service trading here. I will think about opening a thread for it, asap.
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Old 18.06.2017, 14:06
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Because it is a popular myth that creative thoughts must be executed in an unplanned manner. Figuring something out is usually spontanneous yet there is a method (pattern) for that, too. Or, many, actually. Watch creative people brainstorm

Executing the project itself yields the best results, if one plans. Time, space...etc. Nothing to do with a need for a proofreader.

I think a bunch of us had a bit of a problem with OP requesting a free service and offering "having a good time" in return. Just sounds weird. Somebody can fix my telephone, pls, or can teach me French for free?

We should set up service trading here. I will think about opening a thread for it, asap.
Particularly with respect to creative writing, if you don't plan what you want to say, what order you should present those thoughts in, and how you're going to present them then it will come out as more than difficult to follow. You might think of it as "stream of consciousness", but it'll most likely come across as gibberish.

Left to my own devices I tend to be pretty methodical. Forced to participate in a free spirited "Let's not plan or discuss, we should all be free to just express ourselves freely and by some miracle a beautiful and useful thing will result" dance, I tend to stand rather flat footed staring at the structure which has fallen over and mutter things like "well, you know, it's kind of obvious that wood glue isn't appropriate when you're trying to bond stainless steel to glass... even if you did read the instructions and allow it to cure for long enough".

Perhaps I'm just not creative enough to believe that making crap stuff that doesn't do what it was intended to is anything other than a waste of time and materials.
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Old 18.06.2017, 14:17
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Particularly with respect to creative writing, if you don't plan what you want to say, what order you should present those thoughts in, and how you're going to present them then it will come out as more than difficult to follow. You might think of it as "stream of consciousness", but it'll most likely come across as gibberish.

Left to my own devices I tend to be pretty methodical. Forced to participate in a free spirited "Let's not plan or discuss, we should all be free to just express ourselves freely and by some miracle a beautiful and useful thing will result" dance, I tend to stand rather flat footed staring at the structure which has fallen over and mutter things like "well, you know, it's kind of obvious that wood glue isn't appropriate when you're trying to bond stainless steel to glass... even if you did read the instructions and allow it to cure for long enough".

Perhaps I'm just not creative enough to believe that making crap stuff that doesn't do what it was intended to is anything other than a waste of time and materials.
You mean - beatnics aren't en vogue, anymore?

One would think otherwise, everybody who posts online seems to consider themselves to be interesting or a writer. Or don't realize that their rant/tirade served purely self therapeutical purpose.

Having stuff published in an internet era does not mean so much any more. Planning stuff ahead is important, loads of people don't, just collect cliches and chain them.

To my experience a writing coach does less editting (that's a proofreader's job), more work in productive skill set, cognition and compo. Avoiding cliches. It is a pretty h/c work..know nobody who would volunteer for free.
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  #31  
Old 18.06.2017, 14:26
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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You mean - beatnics aren't en vogue, anymore?
Believe you me MC, I am without a doubt the last person on the face of the earth who you should ask about what is, and what is not, en vogue. I have clothing which is older than the internet.
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Old 18.06.2017, 14:40
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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I won't be able to pay for this activity. But we might have some good time together if you're interested.

Thank you.
Is this an alternative form of payment you are talking about?
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  #33  
Old 18.06.2017, 14:42
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Believe you me MC, I am without a doubt the last person on the face of the earth who you should ask about what is, and what is not, en vogue. I have clothing which is older than the internet.
Hipster! Are you wearing a large feather stuck to your hat, too?




Hahahah. I know what is en vogue, the principle is always the same.

People probably read for interesting thoughts, when you think about it..not really for perfect form, but if either is missing, they will not like it. I write for different purposes and audience, what helps is my prof or editor asking me to always add a few extra steps in the cognitive algorithms. Urgh.
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Old 18.06.2017, 14:47
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Hipster! Are you wearing a large feather stuck to your hat, too?
A feather in a beaver skin top hat???

Perish the thought.
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Old 18.06.2017, 14:49
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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A feather in a beaver skin top hat???

Perish the thought.
Vegan hipster! Still en vogue (in CH).
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Old 18.06.2017, 15:48
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Don't underestimate the effort involved in editing, but it's worth it. If J.K.Rowling had had a decent editor, her stories might have rather more literary merit.


Rowling had a decent editor and, if you ask me, her books grow in literary "merit" as they progressed. She said she was writing them so her target audience would have the opportunity to grow and develop with the series and she was incredibly successful in this. Dan Brown is the dude who needs a better editor. Cracking stories, decent characters, awful writing. But he's sold a gazillion copies.



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But would the books have been so popular if they were grammatically correct?

It is the creativity of the concept and the presentation in her writing style to the intended audience.


J.K. Rowling's stories are shining examples of creative writing.

Just looked at the Wikipedia definition and found it quite interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_writing

I believe more of the emphasis is on the idea or concept, with writing and grammar being the canvas to express these.

This is why I find it strange that it is something that you can teach. You are either a creative person or you are not. (many people are).

The most difficult barrier is always the translation of the idea to the written word.
I suppose the question is - Do you want to do this to make money? Just as a vanity project? Hobby? Life skill?
Probably 95 percent of people (or more) make no money - just the creative writing teachers.



I don't understand - are you saying Rowling's novels lack grammatical accuracy? Have you borrowed Swisstree's hobbit pipe? What do you mean? (Bit in bold).


Of course you can teach creative writing - but mostly you need the strong foundations/building blocks of the language you are using before you can get creative with it. You have to understand the "code" forwards and backwards before you can manipulate it to its best effect. The most creative writers will have fantastic technical skills - they have just internalised them so completely as to make it look utterly effortless to those of us who can't do what they do.




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Popular does not equal good. It is not clear if OP is after "good" or "popular".


Exactly. Dan Brown and EL James are testament to this. Both have fairly turgid styles but folk aren't reading either for their "literary merit". I personally don't like them - mostly James as she's a rip-off hack - but they're the ones laughing all the way to the top of the bestseller charts.


"Good" writing is a completely underrated life skill. Being able to identify good writing equally so.
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:32
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Exactly. Dan Brown and EL James are testament to this. Both have fairly turgid styles but folk aren't reading either for their "literary merit". I personally don't like them - mostly James as she's a rip-off hack - but they're the ones laughing all the way to the top of the bestseller charts.
Been ages since I read the grey books and all I seem to have stored in my memory is that she had a very limited vocabulary. A bit like having sex every Wednesday between 7 and 9 pm (or is it between 7 and 7.15pm)?
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:37
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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Been ages since I read the grey books and all I seem to have stored in my memory is that she had a very limited vocabulary. A bit like having sex every Wednesday between 7 and 9 pm (or is it between 7 and 7.15pm)?


This may be the best 50 Shades review I've ever read.


Thank you for the laugh. I've just had to wipe tea off my screen.
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Old 18.06.2017, 17:01
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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I think a bunch of us had a bit of a problem with OP requesting a free service and offering "having a good time" in return. Just sounds weird.
As I wrote in post 23, I think it is completely fine for Sadies (or anyone else) to ask for things for free, or in exchange for some other help, or for goods, or just company (I took Sadies “having a good time” to mean sharing an enjoyable conversation, good company, having a cuppa tea together).

The EF blankie projects are working very well for free, without any payment, or at the most by means of exchanging gratitude and words of affirmation, plus some happy small gifts of sweeties, and perhaps of patters, and wool, in the background. Millions of couchsurfers stay in others’ homes, and offer guests accommodation, for free. And LETS, neighbourhood help and equivalent exchange systems work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_...trading_system.
The gift or exchange is fine, as long as all parties understand and are comfortable with the deal.

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Somebody can fix my telephone, pls, or can teach me French for free?

We should set up service trading here. I will think about opening a thread for it, asap.
Oooh, yes, please do!

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To my experience a writing coach does less editting (that's a proofreader's job), more work in productive skill set, cognition and compo. Avoiding cliches. It is a pretty h/c work..know nobody who would volunteer for free.
Nobody? That’s sad. I do know people who earn their living with highly-paid proofreading, and editing (higher-paid and more demanding) and who, at various stages, have chosen to help others, for free. Just the same as there are lawyers, doctors, teachers, cleaners, engineers, cooks, taxi-drivers and interpreters who, each for his or her own motivation, choose to work for free now and again, for some of their time.

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  #40  
Old 18.06.2017, 17:55
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Re: Who can help me with creative writing?

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As I wrote in post 23, I think it is completely fine for Sadies (or anyone else) to ask for things for free, or in exchange for some other help, or for goods, or just company (I took Sadies “having a good time” to mean sharing an enjoyable conversation, good company, having a cuppa tea together).

The EF blankie projects are working very well for free, without any payment, or at the most by means of exchanging gratitude and words of affirmation, plus some happy small gifts of sweeties, and perhaps of patters, and wool, in the background. Millions of couchsurfers stay in others’ homes, and offer guests accommodation, for free. And LETS, neighbourhood help and equivalent exchange systems work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_...trading_system.
The gift or exchange is fine, as long as all parties understand and are comfortable with the deal.


Oooh, yes, please do!



Nobody? That’s sad. I do know people who earn their living with highly-paid proofreading, and editing (higher-paid and more demanding) and who, at various stages, have chosen to help others, for free. Just the same as there are lawyers, doctors, teachers, cleaners, engineers, cooks, taxi-drivers and interpreters who, each for his or her own motivation, choose to work for free now and again, for some of their time.
Of course we all do...don't we. But it is a matter of having the time, not questioning anyone's charitable minds
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