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Old 02.07.2017, 15:29
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Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Dear EFers,

It has been some time since I last posted on here, having left Zurich in January 2015 after six years. Leaving was a truly agonising decision and it's fair to say I wasn't *that* keen to go. But personal issues back here in Blighty meant I had little choice.

I've now resolved those issues and am almost daily, finding myself thinking about Zurich and returning. However, I wonder if anyone else has been through this? Just about all of my best friends are still there and returning would be much like putting on my old socks.

There is one additional complication to my situation (or perhaps not!). Since I've been back in the UK, I have become a father to twins and so would not be coming back alone this time. Again, I don't know if anyone has experience of this (bringing family with them) and if this is a real complication that makes my CH return more difficult (clearly it's going to be more expensive!). We are all British citizens but does us being married help if I'm bringing my partner and children with me? We are currently cohabiting and very much unmarried.

I came back to visit last August and I think it's no understatement when I say that Zurich is the only place I'd happily call 'home'.

Thank you!
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Old 02.07.2017, 15:45
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Zurich is a great place to live, but not everyone feels that way. While not universally true, the greater your income, the greater your satisfaction plays a part here.

Unless you have a nice six figure salary, Zurich might not be the best place to kick off life as young family. You'll do OK, but in my opinion you'll probably do better in the UK.

A good place to start is:

https://www.gov.uk/world/switzerland...in-switzerland
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Old 02.07.2017, 15:55
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Well do you have an offer of work here ? Or permission B or C
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Old 02.07.2017, 15:57
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Thanks for the considered reply. I have spoken to some friends over there who suggest 120,000CHF is the minimum salary I'd need to sustain the four of us. The most I earned was 90k CHF and that was only a temporary role prior to leaving. Up until then it had been roughly 70k and I don't think that would be enough to survive. I also have serious doubts that I would be able to find a 120k job! But It's good to have these kind of thoughts/opinions to see what's possible.
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Old 02.07.2017, 15:59
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

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Well do you have an offer of work here ? Or permission B or C
My B permit was taken off me when I left in 2015, so no. I would not move without an offer of work, that's the first thing for me. But I just wondered if anyone had a similar experience of leaving and coming back.
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Old 02.07.2017, 16:03
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Your friends are wrong. 90 k would get you through.You can find cheaper housing here for families-around 1300 a month-but a very long waiting list. Assuming also your wife would later find work.
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Thanks for the considered reply. I have spoken to some friends over there who suggest 120,000CHF is the minimum salary I'd need to sustain the four of us. The most I earned was 90k CHF and that was only a temporary role prior to leaving. Up until then it had been roughly 70k and I don't think that would be enough to survive. I also have serious doubts that I would be able to find a 120k job! But It's good to have these kind of thoughts/opinions to see what's possible.
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Old 02.07.2017, 16:16
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Here's one example of what I mean by you'll probably do better in the UK:

https://www.helptobuy.gov.uk/help-to...-does-it-work/

That's a no brainier investment, and both you and your partner can participate it's not a per household deal. I don't believe you will find that kind of opportunity in Zurich.

Also, I agree 120,000CHF would probably be a good start, but finding that starting salary could be difficult, not to mention the work permit issues.

Yes, it is good to look at all your options including moving here, but the grass is always greener - or so they say.
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Old 02.07.2017, 16:19
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

One question comes to mind- apart from permits, etc- how does your partner feel about it? Does he speak any German? Has he visited many times and for more than just a short holiday? (ooops that's 3)
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Old 02.07.2017, 16:23
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Buying a house is very difficult and in Zürich unaffordable unless you are earning a very big wage.Zürich is a very nice city but sometimes hellishly boring. It gets more expensive here every year.
And more and more people want to work here.Its becoming almost overpopulated.

In Zürich they are trying to force people who dont earn alot out of the centre of the city so that the good earners have their peace of mind.


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Here's one example of what I mean by you'll probably do better in the UK:

https://www.helptobuy.gov.uk/help-to...-does-it-work/

That's a no brainier investment, and both you and your partner can participate it's not a per household deal. I don't believe you will find that kind of opportunity in Zurich.

Also, I agree 120,000CHF would probably be a good start, but finding that starting salary could be difficult, not to mention the work permit issues.

Yes, it is good to look at all your options including moving here, but the grass is always greener - or so they say.
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Old 02.07.2017, 16:25
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

he?
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One question comes to mind- apart from permits, etc- how does your partner feel about it? Does he speak any German? Has he visited many times and for more than just a short holiday? (ooops that's 3)
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Old 02.07.2017, 18:02
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Everybody telling OP about Zurich .... which he seems to know very well

Yes, like everywhere, supporting a family will be very different from your last stay here. But - believe it or not - many of us do it on regular basis
If your partner (whom Odile declared to be a man for some reason ) is into the idea and you're - as it seems - kind of homesick for Zurich: Go for it. As you said yourself: You better secure a job here first. To me the biggest risk is that your partner will not like it here, specially if she'll "only" be a trailing spouse, maybe not speaking one of our languages. So talk it over with her thoroughly. As you already have friends here, they might take that weight off her a bit.

Apart from that, hey! You never know until you try!
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Old 02.07.2017, 18:12
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

I'd wager that most Swiss families are managing ok on cobsiderably less that 120k. In fact, if you look at the average wage, logic tells you that the magic 120k is the exception and not the rule. The main issue I see is if you want to live IN Zurich, finding a decent sized 4.5 room apartment that has space for the various things needed for kids will be difficult for under 3k. So the salary requirement is kind of tied to fulfulling the landlord's usual requirement of rental costs not exceeding 1/3 of your salary. So if you could see your way to living further out, that would help.
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Old 02.07.2017, 18:16
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

You should get a job lined up first if you can. You'll likely need that security to be able to bring your family with you as otherwise you'd have to show enough funds to support everyone.

Bear in mind that the Swiss voted to curb EU immigration and although the Federal government hasn't imposed quotas there's a major emphasis on employing people who already live here. So it may not be as easy to find work as it was before.

Being married does help as the Swiss don't really do unmarried hetrosexual couples. There is a permit (concubine) for said couples, but whether your wife would be able to work with that I don't know. And you would have to agree to be financially responsible for her for 5 years.

https://www.ch.ch/en/cohabiting/

https://www.ch.ch/en/family-reunification-eu-efta/
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Old 02.07.2017, 18:16
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

Living in a Genossenschaft in Zürich can be alot cheaper.
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I'd wager that most Swiss families are managing ok on cobsiderably less that 120k. In fact, if you look at the average wage, logic tells you that the magic 120k is the exception and not the rule. The main issue I see is if you want to live IN Zurich, finding a decent sized 4.5 room apartment that has space for the various things needed for kids will be difficult for under 3k. So the salary requirement is kind of tied to fulfulling the landlord's usual requirement of rental costs not exceeding 1/3 of your salary. So if you could see your way to living further out, that would help.
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Old 02.07.2017, 18:42
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

The one thing that you probably might to consider is that for the very moment, moving to Zurich/Switzerland will still be reasonable easy, but that might change very fast (Hard Brexit) - in that case, you'll be Non-EU nationals, and you can pretty much forget to get hired for a regular paid job (What I heard is that it should be North of 100k quite a bit to be considered) due to the laws. Now, it MIGHT not become that hard, but for the moment you're certainly having an easier approach then later once the UK has properly been removed from the EU.

Apart from that, you can definitely manage to "run a family of 4" on a semi-decent level with anything from 60k onwards. Eating out a lot won't be possible, but you can enjoy Switzerland nevertheless. You probably know that already, so no need to explain further. And I guess you'll look for a job in the 80k+ range, thus a bit of splurging will definitely be possible.
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Old 02.07.2017, 18:56
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

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If your partner (whom Odile declared to be a man for some reason ) is into the idea and you're - as it seems - kind of homesick for Zurich: Go for it. As you said yourself: You better secure a job here first. To me the biggest risk is that your partner will not like it here, specially if she'll "only" be a trailing spouse, maybe not speaking one of our languages.
ooops .... Paulie sounds so female in French soz
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Old 02.07.2017, 19:02
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

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ooops .... Paulie sounds so female in French soz
It does help to not only read the bold titles
But Blick and 20 Minutes love you, I'm sure.
Sorry, couldn't refrain .... I'll grab my coat .....
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Old 02.07.2017, 19:39
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

So happy it gave you that warm fuzzy feeling of superiority you can take your coat off now
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Old 03.07.2017, 11:01
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Re: Left ZH two years ago - looking to return: help!

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Living in a Genossenschaft in Zürich can be alot cheaper.
I know several families who spent over 3 years on waiting lists to get a Genossenschaftswohnung. It is indeed cheaper, provided you have sufficient savings for the "buy in payment", but getting in is very hard, even more so for people not already resident in Zurich.
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