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Old 10.09.2017, 17:12
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Lawyer recommendation needed

Hi - am hoping someone can help here, and sorry if I am posting this on the wrong forum.

I have been doing a one year course at a Swiss university, during which time they have increased the fees by 14% by changing the conditions without my agreement, and then denying my ability to submit my thesis unless I pay the additional amount.

I have demanded a proportion of my fees back because I do not agree to the change in terms, but I fully expect to need a lawyer because I doubt they will pay up. In my view the goods as I originally bought them are no longer available to me, and I therefore want a refund.

Can anyone recommend a Swiss lawyer...and any idea what this is likely to cost?

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 10.09.2017, 17:33
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

You need to specify the city (or at least the canton) where the school is located. The legal system in CH is managed at the canton level so you need a lawyer from the canton (yes, in some cases there are lawyers work in more than one canton).
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Old 10.09.2017, 17:35
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

What university is that?

Have you done the course work, submitted the assignments as required and passed the pre-thesis exams? Are you able to and want to submit your thesis? I'm asking to understand how much you want the qualification, and whether it would be from an institution whose certificate is worth having.

Knowing your own position clearly, will help to know which battles to fight, or not.
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Old 10.09.2017, 17:52
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

If you signed something or they have a website, it no doubt has a clause that the conditions may change so I doubt you'll get anywhere with that.
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Old 10.09.2017, 20:18
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

thanks for your answers...it is a one year "course" to finish my PhD, basically completing my thesis. It's a long story but I already have the research expertise having had a number of research papers and books published - this is merely the formal exercise to complete the thesis for a PhD. There is and was nothing to indicate that the conditions may change, and I've actually had very little contact with them. They are based in Zurich.

I would hope that they will return 50% of the fees as I have requested, but I rather suspect they won't - hence wanting to line up a lawyer. I am guessing I need to find one in Zurich (thanks for that advice...appreciated. I didn't know that).

Nothing is ever simple is it?
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Old 10.09.2017, 20:49
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

What do you expect the lawyer to accomplish beside sending you a huge bill? Honestly, it's not worth the effort or cost to go down that road.

Your best bet is to work with the university.
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Old 10.09.2017, 21:04
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

When it is against the rulings and you are certain of that than file a complaint of the university, they should have a board or commission for such. This is more logical (and much cheaper) then skipping these steps and get a lawyer.

When it's not against the ruling better find a way to pay the 14% if you want your papers
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Old 12.09.2017, 08:26
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

Maybe get free advice first

https://www.zav.ch/en//fuer-rechtssu...tsstellen.html
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Old 12.09.2017, 08:58
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

Is this a proper "university"?

Those 14%, what amount in CHF is that? A lawyer will probably cost you more no matter what - they easily charge 300-500+/hour and a quick phone call will already cost you 50 CHF, so you do the math.

Also, chances are you signed something somewhere or implicitly agreed to certain T&C, so they're probably off the hook...
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Old 12.09.2017, 16:53
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

Thanks for all your advice - particular oftatsat; I have sourced a lawyer through that page.

And to those who stated the obvious, if the ability to raise fees was in any clause in their T's & C's do you really think I would be stupid enough to be looking for a lawyer? There is nothing; it is a clear breach of contract, I wanted a lawyer to see how to progress. I now have that...thanks.
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Old 12.09.2017, 16:57
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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Thanks for all your advice - particular oftatsat; I have sourced a lawyer through that page.

And to those who stated the obvious, if the ability to raise fees was in any clause in their T's & C's do you really think I would be stupid enough to be looking for a lawyer? There is nothing; it is a clear breach of contract, I wanted a lawyer to see how to progress. I now have that...thanks.
In future we will assume everybody has read all involved papers and start answering with this knowledge.
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Old 12.09.2017, 17:08
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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Thanks for all your advice - particular oftatsat; I have sourced a lawyer through that page.

And to those who stated the obvious, if the ability to raise fees was in any clause in their T's & C's do you really think I would be stupid enough to be looking for a lawyer? There is nothing; it is a clear breach of contract, I wanted a lawyer to see how to progress. I now have that...thanks.
Well, given people regularly post how they were "cheated" out of XYZ, even though they even signed a specific contract that very explicitly explained how said XYZ would come about, it's a very fair question indeed. Even more so because most people not once read the small print and T&C/AGB of anything they sign.
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Old 12.09.2017, 17:16
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

I should lose one of my red " blobs " because of that. And who knows-maybe Trump will pardon me!
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Thanks for all your advice - particular oftatsat; I have sourced a lawyer through that page.

And to those who stated the obvious, if the ability to raise fees was in any clause in their T's & C's do you really think I would be stupid enough to be looking for a lawyer? There is nothing; it is a clear breach of contract, I wanted a lawyer to see how to progress. I now have that...thanks.

Last edited by omtatsat; 12.09.2017 at 17:29.
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Old 12.09.2017, 17:57
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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thanks for your answers...it is a one year "course" to finish my PhD, basically completing my thesis. It's a long story but I already have the research expertise having had a number of research papers and books published - this is merely the formal exercise to complete the thesis for a PhD. There is and was nothing to indicate that the conditions may change, and I've actually had very little contact with them. They are based in Zurich.
That leaves us only one candidate: Universität Zürich http://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/applica...ktoratphd.html. Good lock with fighting against fees set by the cantonal government. If it is the ETH then good luck with fighting against fees set by the federal government. If it is neither UZH nor ETH then have lot of fun with your "Ph.D."

To do the math. A foreign Ph.D student at the UZH is charged CHF 150 + 100 + 54 = CHF 304 / semester. http://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/applica...tion/fees.html
If the fees have been increased by 14% they where previously charged CHF 267. An increase of a whooping CHF 37.

I wonder what the increase was. Maybe off campus students were waived the ASVZ fee?
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 12.09.2017 at 18:22.
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Old 12.09.2017, 18:09
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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That leaves us only one candidate: Universität Zürich http://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/applica...ktoratphd.html. Good lock with fighting against fees set by the cantonal government. If it is the ETH then good luck with fighting against fees set by the federal government. If it is neither UZH nor ETH then have lot of fun with your "Ph.D."

To do the math. A Ph.D, at the UHZ is charged CHF 150 + 100 + 54 = CHF 304 / semester. http://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/applica...tion/fees.html
If the fees have been increased by 14% they where previously charged CHF 267. An increase of a whooping CHF 37.

I wonder what the increase was. Maybe off campus students were waived the ASVZ fee?
TS has according to his words read all papers and the law is according to him completely on his side.

So who are we to detest such.

Pff, even implying he might be wrong
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:17
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

Besides at the ETH and the UHZ, the ZHDK also offers a PhD programme, as does the "Swiss Finance Institute", according to their respective websites.
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:37
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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Besides at the ETH and the UHZ, the ZHDK also offers a PhD programme, as does the "Swiss Finance Institute", according to their respective websites.
The SFI seems to be some kind of umbrella organisation of the Swiss universities for top tier financial stuff. According to what I read the cost in Zurich would be the very same as already stated above as you have to enroll to the Ph.D. program of one of the partner universities which also in the end awards the degree.

ZHDK, right slipped my mind. Ph.D. in advanced paper craft, glue stick handling and color application
But it is still not a real and unique ZHDK Docorate, in the end the degree is awarded by a foreign partner university https://www.nzz.ch/zuerich/promotion...ere-ld.1296222

Looks like ETH and the UZH are still the only ones which can award doctor degrees in Zurich.
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:17
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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Looks like ETH and the UZH are still the only ones which can award doctor degrees in Zurich.
Afaik that is correct.
Hence my question as I have a feeling we're talking about neither here... Cause surely no one can be stupid enough to make such a fuss about 37 bucks (thanks for looking it up btw!), instead opting for a lawyer who will charge more than that for one 10-minute phone call...
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Old 12.09.2017, 21:23
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

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Afaik that is correct.
Hence my question as I have a feeling we're talking about neither here... Cause surely no one can be stupid enough to make such a fuss about 37 bucks (thanks for looking it up btw!), instead opting for a lawyer who will charge more than that for one 10-minute phone call...
NO amount is too much when you are in the right. And PhD's are always right. Just ask them...
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Old 13.09.2017, 07:35
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Re: Lawyer recommendation needed

Seems like the EF Intelligence ( ? ) Unit are investigating the case!
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