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  #81  
Old 13.09.2017, 16:53
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Re: Why so expensive

I agree, many things are freakishly expensive here. Lots of factors, but I think a major one is that we shop in an oligopoly market. Migros and its subsidiaries have half and Coop and their subsidiaries the other half.

Basically, there is very little real competition and someone is laughing all the way to the bank - with our money!
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  #82  
Old 13.09.2017, 17:31
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Re: Why so expensive

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Suspension tuning costs nothing though. And probably compared to the cost of the vehicle neither do brakes.

Obviously they have to do something to "justify" the difference in cost, I'm not suggesting Swiss consumers are stupid.

Just that putting a different plug on a dishwasher, or a different set of brakes on a car, isn't worth +25% or more on the cost of the product.
I guess you missed my post.

Swiss editions often include packages of options that are less expensive as a bundle then sold separately. Packages for Switzerland sometimes include include 'winter' or 'ski' packages, heated seats, anti fog stuff, ski racks, whatever.

Like I said above options that the Swiss tend to buy. I highly doubt Switzerland is the only market that this kind of thing happens in. In Spain I bet you they have the Spanish racer boy Edition by SEAT.

So... Not just different brakes and suspension.
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  #83  
Old 13.09.2017, 17:37
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Re: Why so expensive

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I guess you missed my post.

Swiss editions often include packages of options that are less expensive as a bundle then sold separately. Packages for Switzerland sometimes include include 'winter' or 'ski' packages, heated seats, anti fog stuff, ski racks, whatever.

Like I said above options that the Swiss tend to buy. I highly doubt Switzerland is the only market that this kind of thing happens in. In Spain I bet you they have the Spanish racer boy Edition by SEAT.

So... Not just different brakes and suspension.
I can only speak from my experience - you are right, the Swiss Edition models do often have different options.

But in all the cases I've checked (kitchen appliances, garden equipment) those options were cheaper overall when bought as European add-ons, or included in a cheaper "better" model based on European prices.

I'm sure there are exceptions, and it sounds like you have checked in depth for what you bought - but without that checking, my working assumption is always that Swiss Edition is an expensive unnecessary addon.
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  #84  
Old 13.09.2017, 18:29
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Re: Why so expensive

You're right TexasT. Competition, open market is staunchly opposed here. Protectionism, nepotism and all those last-century-isms are very rampant. A shopping trip to Konstanz is a smart option for most family, grocery shopping, especially if they're meat lovers. My Swiss neighbors however were very agitated once they learnt about my cross-border shopping! One even said, "we pay you high salary so that you can live comfortably here, not shop abroad". This basically explains the narrow mindedness and low education of the society. I earn my wage because I provide a high-value service in return. My employer (US firm) put me here in this dumbo-land because they couldn't find anyone suitably skilled locally. The "we"s are too busy on online forums instead of doing some skill building on Corsera. "Corsera, was ist das?", I often hear from those "we"s. So, I am free to spend my money as I see fit. Heck, I even maintain a EUR account with a German bank. CHF is too weird, volatile and artificially inflated, to entrust my future with. Overnight, the "we"s of SNB could do something to wipe 10/20% off.

As for grocery shopping, the effect is much smaller on any household budget, but Konstanz is a good way to deal with the inflated prices. Wherever possible, I also order stuff online from manufacturer's website, anything from Nespresso capsules to small electronics.
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  #85  
Old 14.09.2017, 12:28
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Re: Why so expensive

OK - I'm going to add to the original question AGAIN.

I've read enough posts, including responses to this post that the salaries are HIGHER (or at least HIGH) here in Switzerland.

Can you explain more - I have NOT found this to be accurate for my situation.
I find the salaries to be average for the work I do/have done for many cities in the USA.

Are the salaries HIGH for the average worker, or the skilled worker, or the "no college degree" worker, or the executive or a certain industry....

To be a bit more specific, I took a paycut to work / live here in Switzerland. The roles are similar enough, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.
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Old 14.09.2017, 12:33
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Re: Why so expensive

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OK - I'm going to add to the original question AGAIN.

I've read enough posts, including responses to this post that the salaries are HIGHER (or at least HIGH) here in Switzerland.

Can you explain more - I have NOT found this to be accurate for my situation.
I find the salaries to be average for the work I do/have done for many cities in the USA.

Are the salaries HIGH for the average worker, or the skilled worker, or the "no college degree" worker, or the executive or a certain industry....

To be a bit more specific, I took a paycut to work / live here in Switzerland. The roles are similar enough, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.
Average salaries are higher, i.e. the average shop worker can afford to live in an apartment, afford adequate healthcare and maybe take a holiday once a year.

A wealth gap exists but it's nowhere near as stark as, say, the US. Not many people here, by comparison, live hand-to-mouth.
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  #87  
Old 14.09.2017, 12:34
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Re: Why so expensive

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Are the salaries HIGH for the average worker, or the skilled worker, or the "no college degree" worker, or the executive or a certain industry....

To be a bit more specific, I took a paycut to work / live here in Switzerland. The roles are similar enough, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.
For the average and no college degree worker for sure. A Swiss supermarket cashier earns double to his US counterpart.
https://de.glassdoor.ch/Gehalt/Migro...ter-E10672.htm
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...er/Hourly_Rate


Here you can compare your salary to others in your field:
https://www.gate.bfs.admin.ch/salari...ex.html#/start
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  #88  
Old 14.09.2017, 13:49
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Re: Why so expensive

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Average salaries are higher, i.e. the average shop worker can afford to live in an apartment, afford adequate healthcare and maybe take a holiday once a year.

A wealth gap exists but it's nowhere near as stark as, say, the US. Not many people here, by comparison, live hand-to-mouth.
Do you have sources to back up this?
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Old 14.09.2017, 13:50
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Re: Why so expensive

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OK - I'm going to add to the original question AGAIN.

I've read enough posts, including responses to this post that the salaries are HIGHER (or at least HIGH) here in Switzerland.

Can you explain more - I have NOT found this to be accurate for my situation.
I find the salaries to be average for the work I do/have done for many cities in the USA.

Are the salaries HIGH for the average worker, or the skilled worker, or the "no college degree" worker, or the executive or a certain industry....

To be a bit more specific, I took a paycut to work / live here in Switzerland. The roles are similar enough, not exactly the same, but pretty similar.
Looks like you didn't do your homework before negotiating your Swiss salary.
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  #90  
Old 14.09.2017, 13:57
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Re: Why so expensive

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Do you have sources to back up this?
It's not exactly a challenging google exercise...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/wealth-...n-oecd/6989850
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  #91  
Old 14.09.2017, 14:03
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Re: Why so expensive

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To be a bit more specific, I took a paycut to work / live here in Switzerland.
So did I, but living in Switzerland was cheaper than living in the US at the time.

Tom
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Old 14.09.2017, 15:17
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Re: Why so expensive

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It's not exactly a challenging google exercise...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/wealth-...n-oecd/6989850
It is from 2008...

Anyway, I was not challenging your claim, it's just that these USA and CH (or even any other Euro country) wealth gaps comparisons transmit a blurred reality, IMHO.
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  #93  
Old 14.09.2017, 15:54
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Re: Why so expensive

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It is from 2008...

Anyway, I was not challenging your claim, it's just that these USA and CH (or even any other Euro country) wealth gaps comparisons transmit a blurred reality, IMHO.
Here's some stuff on income distribution/inequality:

http://www.oecd.org/social/income-di...n-database.htm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2172rank.html
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  #94  
Old 14.09.2017, 16:02
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Re: Why so expensive

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It is from 2008...

Anyway, I was not challenging your claim, it's just that these USA and CH (or even any other Euro country) wealth gaps comparisons transmit a blurred reality, IMHO.
Yep, I agree. I was just trying not to lose sight of the OP's earlier question about average salaries here vs in the US (presumably from where he's used to).

I was making a general point that the wealth you see of people on "average" salaries, or even low salaries of people in Switzerland is likely very different to what he is used to in the US.
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Old 14.09.2017, 16:04
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Re: Why so expensive

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It is from 2008...

Anyway, I was not challenging your claim, it's just that these USA and CH (or even any other Euro country) wealth gaps comparisons transmit a blurred reality, IMHO.
With all the Trump news around there's been quite a focus on run-down bits of the US, and there are plenty of reports of people living in trailer parks or the like and really struggling to survive.

You simply don't see that in Switzerland because of the social support system.

So while there is a significant wealth gap here, the bottom boundary of it is nowhere near as extreme.
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Old 14.09.2017, 16:07
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Re: Why so expensive

People in Switzerland are chronic consumers-to the point of being sick.
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" Stupid " or just got used to the situation over the years and are comfortable with it and can afford it?
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Old 14.09.2017, 16:12
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Re: Why so expensive

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People in Switzerland are chronic consumers-to the point of being sick.
Err... I'm a person in Switzerland and I have a make-do-and-mend outlook, combined with a sunny can-do attitude, thanks very much.
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Old 14.09.2017, 16:13
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Re: Why so expensive

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People in Switzerland are chronic consumers-to the point of being sick.
As they are in every other country on the planet.

Tom
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Old 14.09.2017, 16:20
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Re: Why so expensive

Transport services are also crazily expensive. In Konstanz I got a day card for 4 euro 50 no price reduction. For the locals I guess its even cheaper? Don't know for sure. Here a day card will cost 12 CHF I think-without reduction. And 6.30 CHF with. And the prices seem to go up regularly. So wheres the limit here!!!
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Old 14.09.2017, 16:22
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Re: Why so expensive

OK there are exceptions but few and far between
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Err... I'm a person in Switzerland and I have a make-do-and-mend outlook, combined with a sunny can-do attitude, thanks very much.
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