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Old 20.09.2017, 14:10
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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If you want to upset the Dutch start a discussion about "Zwarte Piet"
Meanwhile, the Brits have "Blue Peter".

Tom
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  #202  
Old 20.09.2017, 14:15
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Most people in the UK don't find golliwogs racist

To me, golliwogs are racist – but a tearoom tangle and a new poll shows Britain disagrees
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  #203  
Old 20.09.2017, 14:35
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Interesting article. It seems to say that old white people are the ones that find it mostly acceptable. I could have guessed that before reading the article though.

The author also says something very interesting towards the end of the article, which I think a lot of people here should read:

"It’s perfectly legitimate to argue that something is (or is not) racist, irrespective of public opinion. Conversely, it is equally possible to argue that, if a minority group feels demeaned by a symbol or stereotype obviously aimed at them, then that symbol or stereotype is demeaning whether or not others regard it as such."

edit: Oh and another cracking quote from the article:

"And could we – should we – try to change people’s views on golliwogs by telling them more about their origins?"

As I found out after a bunch of groans from Tom & friends, the answer is no, we shouldn't

Last edited by DanLF; 20.09.2017 at 14:53.
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  #204  
Old 20.09.2017, 14:53
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

You'll find them in childrens' literature from Rupert Bear to Noddy:





  #205  
Old 20.09.2017, 14:57
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Meanwhile, the Brits have "Blue Peter".

Tom
In the Netherlands racists refer to blacks (among other things) as "Blauwe" which directly translates to Blue.

(And no, I have no clue why or how this came to existence..)
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  #206  
Old 20.09.2017, 15:00
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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it is equally possible to argue that, if a minority group feels demeaned by a symbol or stereotype obviously aimed at them, then that symbol or stereotype is demeaning whether or not others regard it as such."
If a group of people points at this car and says it is a Yellow car:



Would that make this a yellow car?
  #207  
Old 20.09.2017, 15:08
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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If a group of people points at this car and says it is a Yellow car:



Would that make this a yellow car?
Opinions, emotions and thoughts are not physical things. Your link works about as well as your logic.
  #208  
Old 20.09.2017, 15:08
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Interesting article. It seems to say that old white people are the ones that find it mostly acceptable. I could have guessed that before reading the article though.

The author also says something very interesting towards the end of the article, which I think a lot of people here should read:

"It’s perfectly legitimate to argue that something is (or is not) racist, irrespective of public opinion. Conversely, it is equally possible to argue that, if a minority group feels demeaned by a symbol or stereotype obviously aimed at them, then that symbol or stereotype is demeaning whether or not others regard it as such."
I can understand that every group, minority or not btw, has their own sensitivities...and stereotypes are not liked by anyone. Nobody wants to be seen as a racist for instance. The natural reaction is that they'll try to convince you the racism is justified, rather than changing old ways. However, these never ending discussions always made me think that no-one should feel so helpless and insecure as to look for validation or confirmation in everybody else and their dog, really.
As I said, pushing an agenda like this - rewrite history, change names, bring down statues and symbols is stupid. It's not earned, how should I be more delicate. It's forced upon people and they will react rather aggressively. Look what happened in the USA, to give just an example.
  #209  
Old 20.09.2017, 15:45
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Meanwhile, the Brits have "Blue Peter".

Tom
You do know it's named in reference to the sailing flag? The one that indicates when a boat is ready to set sail?
  #210  
Old 20.09.2017, 15:48
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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You do know it's named in reference to the sailing flag?
Actually, no.

Tom
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  #211  
Old 20.09.2017, 16:39
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

That's it.

I'm never calling the stew I grew up eating "scouse" again!
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  #212  
Old 20.09.2017, 16:46
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Hehe, yes. I bet OP thinks it's a wonderful idea and she'll be thrilled to meet people who hold these views.

Anyhow, it's funny. I discovered a subject I will try to politely bring into discussions with our Dutch friends, with the hope that I won't embarrass them too much.

One of them has studied sociology and worked in this area before moving here.
I still cringe when I walk past that restaurant.


Dear Mods,
I think this thread has gone far past the point...... Time to close shop?
  #213  
Old 20.09.2017, 16:53
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Meanwhile, the Brits have "Blue Peter".

Tom
Yep, my Dutch Grandma used to speak of blue people when she actually meant dark skinned people. No idea where that came from but I've met other people of that generation who also used the term.

So pictures of smurfs are racist too.

EDIT: EdwinNL beat me to it.
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  #214  
Old 20.09.2017, 16:54
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I still cringe when I walk past that restaurant.
Just a few hundred meters away, close to Bellevue, there is a restaurant called "Tschingg". I think this a good example how the perception of a word can (be) changed.
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  #215  
Old 20.09.2017, 16:58
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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You do know it's named in reference to the sailing flag? The one that indicates when a boat is ready to set sail?
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Actually, no.

Tom
It's a little known fact, but the programme's name is actually an in-joke from Biddy Baxter's student days at Durham University. Apparently she lived in a shared house with a group of young gentlemen. One of these gentlemen, whose name shall be revealed later, lived in the topmost room in the attic and had the unwholesome habit of urinating out of the window at night in order to save himself the long trek down the stairs to the bathroom on the first floor.

This caused a great deal of consternation for his housemates, who, finding that their entreaties came to naught, desperately sought a permanent solution to this steaming problem.

Eventually, one of the housemates, a young scientist by the name of Crick, procured a quantity of liquid nitrogen, which he brought home in a Thermos flask. His friend Watson, who was an avid alpinist, provided him with ropes and crampons in order that he might scale the building and install himself on the roof above the master of micturition's garret window.

Crick waited several hours on the roof, in the cold, uncomfortable drizzle characteristic of a typical Durham night, until finally, in the early hours of the morning, opportunity knocked! Out popped 'percy' and the golden shower began as usual. Crick quickly removed the top of the Thermos flask and emptied the contents onto the offending organ below. There was a yelp, a crash, then complete silence.

The offending housemate moved out the following morning, but not before he had earned the nickname "Blue Peter", which stuck with him for the rest of his time at Durham.

The young man later began a career in television, beginning with a children's magazine programme which was to be produced by an ambitious young woman - quite an unusual thing back in the fifties. He had no idea for whom he would be working, nor had the programme yet been given a title, when he arrived for his audition. Upon entering the room, he saw his old housemate Biddy Baxter sitting there, who immediately fell about laughing, crying out "Blue Peter" as she pointed at the prospective presenter. Her staff thought that she had come up with a name for the programme, and immediately wrote it down. Meanwhile, the young gentleman, though mortified by his reception, was immediately given the job "for putting a smile on my face".

The young man for whom Blue Peter was named, has been known and loved ever since by millions of children in the United Kingdom and Commonwealth, as Valerie Singleton.

Not a lot of people know that.
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Old 20.09.2017, 17:00
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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That's it.

I'm never calling the stew I grew up eating "scouse" again!
And my blancmange just became beigemange. Or is that discriminatory against dogs?
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  #217  
Old 20.09.2017, 17:02
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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"It’s perfectly legitimate to argue that something is (or is not) racist, irrespective of public opinion. Conversely, it is equally possible to argue that, if a minority group feels demeaned by a symbol or stereotype obviously aimed at them, then that symbol or stereotype is demeaning whether or not others regard it as such."
This argument doesn't make sense. Demeaning is a relative term. It depends on one's perspective. So what is demaning to one person isn't necessarily demeaning to another person. One perosn may think it is demeaning to clean public toilets. Anothers may disgree and consider it an honourable service. The question should not be about trying to make everybody agree, but about seeking to establish what can be done about something that makes some people uncomfortable. Trying to argue that there is some universal standard of demeaningness is frankly barking up the wrong tree.
  #218  
Old 20.09.2017, 17:05
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

A popular place

Last edited by omtatsat; 06.12.2017 at 08:52.
  #219  
Old 20.09.2017, 17:23
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I still cringe when I walk past that restaurant.

Dear Mods,
I think this thread has gone far past the point...... Time to close shop?
You may be able to bring it back on topic by explaining why or how Mohrenkopf is racist, why you feel denigrated or whatever term best describes how you feel. I'm still looking for an answer to this honest question.
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  #220  
Old 20.09.2017, 17:31
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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This argument doesn't make sense. Demeaning is a relative term. It depends on one's perspective. So what is demaning to one person isn't necessarily demeaning to another person. One perosn may think it is demeaning to clean public toilets. Anothers may disgree and consider it an honourable service. The question should not be about trying to make everybody agree, but about seeking to establish what can be done about something that makes some people uncomfortable. Trying to argue that there is some universal standard of demeaningness is frankly barking up the wrong tree.
I think the point is that because one doesn't find something demeaning, it doesn't mean that someone else isn't entitled to find it demeaning. A lot of the arguments here are basically against even accepting it could be a demeaning word for some people ("PC brigade", "more important things to worry about", etc.)
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