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Old 22.09.2017, 07:50
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I'm a user here since 2012, although I've lived in Switzerland since 2001. I rarely post, and one of the reasons is because I don't like the bullying and trolling that goes on here.

After the announcement about the mods clearing up the toxic atmosphere here, I thought I'd become more active again. I was persuaded by another user to stand up for my view and opinions. Racism is one of the things I feel strongly about, and I will share my opinions on it, no matter how many groans I might get.

Read the thread, and read my posts in it:
https://www.englishforum.ch/announce...ial-posts.html

Your constant assertions that I am some sort of fake user I now consider harassment. How would you like it if I started making accusations about who you might be? One thing I know you are, and should be obvious to everyone here, is a bully.

Please stop.
you are the one coming with ridiculous statements and then complain that people react. look in the mirror man!
  #282  
Old 22.09.2017, 08:24
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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One thing I know you are, and should be obvious to everyone here, is a bully.


Tom
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  #283  
Old 22.09.2017, 09:04
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Tom
Please stop.
  #284  
Old 22.09.2017, 09:07
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I'm really struggling to understand what you're getting at here. I would wake the African in the next room to show him this, but I know I wouldn't be able to post his response.
What you quote is the answer to the question immediately before the quote.
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Old 22.09.2017, 09:38
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Racism is one of the things I feel strongly about, and I will share my opinions on it, no matter how many groans I might get.
That's fine or even admirable and all that. However, don't you think you've really lost quite a bit of perspective by now?
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  #286  
Old 22.09.2017, 09:46
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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What you quote is the answer to the question immediately before the quote.
Granted. Trying to work out how many pages I need to catch up on. Read 3 pages last night, and I still couldn't fathom how this thread has gone from talking about sweets to accusations of bullying.
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Old 22.09.2017, 09:52
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Imagine a 8 year old,asking an adult, why is it called a Mohrenkopf, or what is a Mohrenkopf, because, well, they have never heard the word Mohr before, so whats a Mohrenkopf. Then the adult, replies, that Mohr was an old word used for people from Africa or Arabia. The kid, looks at the sweet, and makes a connection. Whatever the connection is, will be very individual, but, the reference has been made, a dark oval shape equals an African.
Not necessarily. What if that child asks for the origins of "Fisherman's Friends"? Are they then to assume that fishermen are friendless apart from a bag of small, oval chalky tablets which make your eyes water?

Kids aren't stupid and, for the most part, don't take things literally. To use your logic, kids would recoil over food items such as "ladies' fingers" and "Totenbeinli".

Adults making a big drama out of stuff is what lays down the connection for a child.
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  #288  
Old 22.09.2017, 10:06
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

About that kid asking whether they were "Asyl"...

I can't remember the number of times people asked me whether I "live on a mountain and yodel" when I mentioned I was from Switzerland. Because apparently, perception is that Switzerland has nothing but mountains, that every Swiss plays the alphorn, skis all year long and yodels in their spare time. When I say that I live in a city, do not yodel, have no idea how to play the alphorn and haven't skied in 20 years, they all go like "Whaaaat? Are you sure you're Swiss?"

Is that prejudice? Sure. Is it racism? Absolutely not. Have I ever been offended by it? Never. It simply amuses me.

We all have prejudice and jump to conclusions based on what we think we know. Some Swiss live on mountains, it's certainly not even the majority, yet some people think because some do, they all do. So be it, what's the harm? The key is to revise prejudice when receiving proof that the opposite is true. Or at the very least balance out your previous opinions.

Many black/dark-skinned people in Switzerland DID indeed come here on Asyl. And make no mistake, the only reason there are more black/dark-skinned people in UK, France etc. is because they have a colonial history and made immigration from former colonies easy. Switzerland does not have that history. So the assumption that a black person in Switzerland may indeed have come here as an asylum seeker is actually fair and logical.

Is it prejudice? Sure. Is it racism? Absolutely not. And there is a significant difference between the two. Having a prejudice does NOT mean to look at yourself as superior to others in any way. Racism does.
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  #289  
Old 22.09.2017, 10:21
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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So the assumption that a black person in Switzerland may indeed have come here as an asylum seeker is actually fair and logical.

Is it prejudice? Sure. Is it racism? Absolutely not. And there is a significant difference between the two. Having a prejudice does NOT mean to look at yourself as superior to others in any way. Racism does.
I agree that assuming is prejudice, asking however isn't. Especially when it's an 8yr old child.
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Old 22.09.2017, 10:38
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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About that kid asking whether they were "Asyl"...

I can't remember the number of times people asked me whether I "live on a mountain and yodel" when I mentioned I was from Switzerland. Because apparently, perception is that Switzerland has nothing but mountains, that every Swiss plays the alphorn, skis all year long and yodels in their spare time. When I say that I live in a city, do not yodel, have no idea how to play the alphorn and haven't skied in 20 years, they all go like "Whaaaat? Are you sure you're Swiss?"

Is that prejudice? Sure. Is it racism? Absolutely not. Have I ever been offended by it? Never. It simply amuses me.

We all have prejudice and jump to conclusions based on what we think we know. Some Swiss live on mountains, it's certainly not even the majority, yet some people think because some do, they all do. So be it, what's the harm? The key is to revise prejudice when receiving proof that the opposite is true. Or at the very least balance out your previous opinions.

Many black/dark-skinned people in Switzerland DID indeed come here on Asyl. And make no mistake, the only reason there are more black/dark-skinned people in UK, France etc. is because they have a colonial history and made immigration from former colonies easy. Switzerland does not have that history. So the assumption that a black person in Switzerland may indeed have come here as an asylum seeker is actually fair and logical.

Is it prejudice? Sure. Is it racism? Absolutely not. And there is a significant difference between the two. Having a prejudice does NOT mean to look at yourself as superior to others in any way. Racism does.
I still don't see where there was actually prejudice. Asking a simple question without bias doesn't qualify (and as op stated, she was 'really sweet'). What if the little girl who asked the question had also been dark -skinned? What if she had been light skinned and an Asylant herself? Does it really matter anyway? To assume that she is prejudiced because she is not dark-skinned is racist in and of itself, and to assume that there was some sort of negative connotation to the question asked is just projecting one's own biases about what it means to be an Asylant onto the girl. For all we know, she is just excited to meet new friends from other countries and cultures...
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  #291  
Old 22.09.2017, 10:39
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I agree that assuming is prejudice, asking however isn't. Especially when it's an 8yr old child.
I would say it's only prejdice if the assumption also entails a judgemental element.

We all assume things every day. You see a woman get on the bus with a small child. You assume she's the mother. You see there is also a man with them. You assume he's the father. Are you being prejudicial by assuming these things rather than going over and asking?

No, the prejudice starts when you make a judgement over this.
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Old 22.09.2017, 10:41
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I agree that assuming is prejudice, asking however isn't. Especially when it's an 8yr old child.
True.

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I still don't see where there was actually prejudice. Asking a simple question without bias doesn't qualify (and as op stated, she was 'really sweet'). What if the little girl who asked the question had also been dark -skinned? What if she had been light skinned and an Asylant herself? Does it really matter anyway? To assume that she is prejudiced because she is not dark-skinned is racist in and of itself, and to assume that there was some sort of negative connotation to the question asked is just projecting one's own biases about what it means to be an Asylant onto the girl. For all we know, she is just excited to meet new friends from other countries and cultures...
Actually these are very fair points, particularly the part in bold.
  #293  
Old 22.09.2017, 10:57
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Kids aren't stupid and, for the most part, don't take things literally. To use your logic, kids would recoil over food items such as "ladies' fingers" and "Totenbeinli".
Baumkuchen

Pfaffenhut
Apfel im Schlafrock

Gritibänz
Spitzbube
Meitschibei
Mönchskopf
Tête de Moine
Caramelchöpfli
Seelen (southern Germany)
Götterspeise
Kopfsalat

Schlumpfkopf

Cholera

Amerikaner (in Germany)
Charlotte
Emmentaler
Diplomat
Mailänderli
Prussien
Berliner
Wienerli

Falscher Hase
Schokohase
Hot Dog
Kalter Hund
Hasenohren
Müüsliblättli
Zimtschnecken
Hefeschnecken
Bienenstich
Biberli
Schweinsohren
Fleischvogel
Ochsenherzen
Katzenzungen
Vogelheu
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  #294  
Old 22.09.2017, 11:11
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Vogelnestli
Bärendräck
Blauburgunder
Messdiener
Pharisäerkaffee
Luxemburgerli
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Old 22.09.2017, 11:14
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Tessinerbrot

Tom
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  #296  
Old 22.09.2017, 12:10
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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That's fine or even admirable and all that. However, don't you think you've really lost quite a bit of perspective by now?
I quite probably have. It was very difficult to stay on topic when the discussion turned nasty and I started receiving insults. Some of my responses have also been a bit barbed I admit (even with you), but despite receiving so many insults (even being called bad parent!) I've really tried to continue to argue the point and not the person.

I have been following through logically the reasons for why I think Mohrenkopf isn't a good word. To do this I had to show not only where the origin of the word comes from and why I think it was named as such, but why even in Switzerland it's something we should consider in terms of Swiss history as being insensitive. I've sourced all of my evidence for the above, I'm not just making things up to upset people. I understand that the things I've said might offend, but that doesn't make them less true or relevant to the topic of the thread.

At this point, I feel I am being shouted down (with insults), and where you are probably right in that I've lost some perspective is that I've decided to dig my heels in. It's what I did when I was a kid (and throughout my life) in the face of what I feel was bullying.

I guess I'm not going to win any popularity contests on this forum, but I don't think this justifies (or even is allowed by the forum rules anyway) the amount of abuse I've received either. If someone shreds my arguments and even provides some evidence where logic isn't enough, I will probably end up agreeing with them. I even have in this thread, at least twice. However I'm not going to stop because some forum members start calling me a bad parent, absurd, ridiculous, sock puppet, ignorant, an "utter waste of time", tell me to "Sit!", tell me I need to "get a life" and stupid ("You were not the most bright kid in class I guess").

@k_and_e, when I look in the mirror, I don't see someone that thinks it's ok to throw insults at someone just because I don't agree with them, with or without the forum rules here.
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Old 22.09.2017, 12:25
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Lion Bar
Gummi Bears
Kit Kat
Galaxy Minstrels
Black Jacks
Mars (clearly not the size of a planet)
Jelly Babies
Dolly Mixtures
Yellowman
Bazooka
Flying Saucers
Texan Bar
Space Dust
Gingerbread men
Sugar mice

It's all just branding, and I remember my mum taking these when I was kid...

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Old 22.09.2017, 14:42
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I'm really struggling to understand what you're getting at here. I would wake the African in the next room to show him this, but I know I wouldn't be able to post his response.
I forgot to ask so let me do it now: Which part would he be upset by and why?
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Old 22.09.2017, 15:04
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Stierenaugen
Bärentatzen

Nonnenfürzle (southern Germany)
Versoffene Jungfern/Bessoffene Jungfern (Bavaria)
Wackelpeter
Arme Ritter
Tote Tante

Fotzelschnitte

And a long list form a book, including "Gebackene Negerweiber":
http://d-nb.info/840662904/04
https://www.amazon.de/Ritter-Err%C3%.../dp/3517008206
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Old 22.09.2017, 15:22
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I forgot to ask so let me do it now: Which part would he be upset by and why?
Not upset. More infuriated by the sweeping generalisations in this...

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For simplicity's sake let's focus on people from Africa. While there are others as well, the Africans are the most obvious black people, and there aren't that many around from other nations. Plus there aren't enough whites among them to make a significant difference.
With nationals from African countries comprising 4.58% of the immigrant population of Switzerland, and more than a quarter of those coming from Eritrea alone, it becomes a little rude to lump all Africans together when only a handful of African nations comprise the vast majority of immigrants from that continent.

If you said the same for Asians, you'd have a significant proportion of the country's IT sector on your case

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society...land-/42412156
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