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Old 20.06.2020, 09:46
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Because for most people, the word doesn't have a racist connotation
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Apparently, in Switzerland it was called Mohrenkopf from the beginning and was derived as a politically correct version from the German direct translation of the original French name.
Make your mind up. It either has racial connotations or it doesn't.
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Old 20.06.2020, 10:01
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I assume that the "politically correct" name of "Mohrenkopf" was in line with the ways of thinking at the time as opposed to the political andscape nowadays.
Not necessarily. Moor is not a racial slur per se. It's the official term to describe Muslims who inhabited the Maghreb region and parts of Southern Europe. The original terminology from Germany and France is definitely racist.
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Old 20.06.2020, 11:09
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Seems other countries have been a bit quicker than CH (as is often the case) to recognise and change the racial connotations...
Who cares about 3rd world countries?

Tom
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Old 20.06.2020, 11:12
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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A local is someone who lives here.
No, a "local" is someone born and raised here.

My wife is a local, I am not, but we are both Swiss.

Tom
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Old 20.06.2020, 12:24
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Because for most people, the word doesn't have a racist connotation and is simply the original name of the candy. Whether the original name is racist or not is debatable and I've yet to hear the word being used toward another person.
You're wrong. There were some Swiss who did use Mohrenkopf to describe a black person. They also think they were funny when they did it. Humour is so subjective.

Dubler could always create a white chocolate equivalent of his product and call it Bleichgesicht Kopf. I actually think the Swiss would be OK with that.
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Old 20.06.2020, 12:25
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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No, a "local" is someone born and raised here.

My wife is a local, I am not, but we are both Swiss.

Local:

noun
an inhabitant of a particular area or neighbourhood.

Lots more defintions. Non of them state 'born and raised' as a prerequisite for being local but of course, being born and raised somewhere does mean you are a local.
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  #567  
Old 20.06.2020, 12:32
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Local:

noun
an inhabitant of a particular area or neighbourhood.

Lots more defintions. Non of them state 'born and raised' as a prerequisite for being local but of course, being born and raised somewhere does mean you are a local.


I'm actually amused by all these attempts to exclude people and opinions on the basis of not being local/native speakers of/etc etc etc.

Meantime Migros and other companies will take their own decisions and us, customers, have nothing else to do but to choose for ourselves.
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  #568  
Old 20.06.2020, 13:00
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Not necessarily. Moor is not a racial slur per se. It's the official term to describe Muslims who inhabited the Maghreb region and parts of Southern Europe. The original terminology from Germany and France is definitely racist.
Well, we could debate the various merits and intentions origins until the cows come home, but what matters is how it is peceived today in this political climate.

If you have to weigh up the importance of preserving the name of a candy with racial connotations vs changing the name to ensure no-one feels bad a result of those racial connotations then it is an easy choice to make. No-one should ever have to feel that kind of hurt as the result of a trivial food item, we can just easily remove these things without 'harming the local culture'.

Now, as for Black Peter in The Netherlands.. that in comparison is going to be tough to change without upsetting a hell of a lot of people.
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Old 20.06.2020, 13:28
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Not necessarily. Moor is not a racial slur per se. It's the official term to describe Muslims who inhabited the Maghreb region and parts of Southern Europe. The original terminology from Germany and France is definitely racist.
Mohr is also a surname in Switzerland and Germany .

Possibly reflecting that their ancestors may have been dark skinned a long time ago.

The English surname Morris may have the same origin.

Shall we force people to change their names
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Old 20.06.2020, 13:38
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Are you seriously equating renaming a candy vs renaming... actual people? Do you really want that ludicrously ęxaggerated argument to be an enduring sign of your intellectual capacity in a racially charged and sensitive debate?
If a Herr Mohr were to make chocolate candies , and sell them as Mohr’s xyz , and people were to take offense, they would be taking offence at his name, no ?
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Old 20.06.2020, 13:48
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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If a Herr Mohr were to make chocolate candies , and sell them as Mohr’s xyz , and people were to take offense, they would be taking offence at his name, no ?
Herr Schwarzkopf seems to manage it with little controversy.

Please attempt a better troll next time. At least i hope it was a troll, because if not. Wow.
  #572  
Old 20.06.2020, 14:02
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I find it astounding anyone could be in this thread proffering opinions without knowing this stuff.
Hi there, welcome to EF, where we have a lot of members with a lot of different opinions. Perhaps some are more informed than others about certain topics. But to assume you have to "know" stuff to post here? Nah.

I had never even heard of this candy until this thread was started a few years ago. I've seen these chocolate-covered mousse things in shops in Bern but I can't recall seeing them named Mohrenkopf here.

I find this to be an interesting thread and topic. How much historical stuff should we leave alone simply because it's historical and how much should change with the times? Seems there's no simple answer to every situation.
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Old 20.06.2020, 14:10
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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You're wrong. There were some Swiss who did use Mohrenkopf to describe a black person. They also think they were funny when they did it. Humour is so subjective.

Dubler could always create a white chocolate equivalent of his product and call it Bleichgesicht Kopf. I actually think the Swiss would be OK with that.
There were some Swiss somewhere. . .that is neither here nor there OG. Fact is, it's not being used at present times, other than for the candy. On the other hand, the derogatory "N-word" I've heard numerous times, which would be legitimally considered hate speech. The issue now is, if we're talking semantics on such futile levels, where do we stop? In theory, one would have to go until the cross from the Swiss flag is removed, which is bordering on the ridiculous. All in all, I believe that this will create an absolute negative effect, meaning that kids who didn't know the meaning of Mohrenkopf will start using it in a derogatory way.
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  #574  
Old 20.06.2020, 14:16
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Hi there, welcome to EF, where we have a lot of members with a lot of different opinions. Perhaps some are more informed than others about certain topics. But to assume you have to "know" stuff to post here? Nah.

I had never even heard of this candy until this thread was started a few years ago. I've seen these chocolate-covered mousse things in shops in Bern but I can't recall seeing them named Mohrenkopf here.

I find this to be an interesting thread and topic. How much historical stuff should we leave alone simply because it's historical and how much should change with the times? Seems there's no simple answer to every situation.
Having an opinion is fine. Pretending to be an authority is quite another thing.
  #575  
Old 20.06.2020, 14:21
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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If a Herr Mohr were to make chocolate candies , and sell them as Mohr’s xyz , and people were to take offense, they would be taking offence at his name, no ?
Yes amogles, that example you just made is exactly the same context as this example of the Mohrenkopf sweet. I think we call all lay this issue to rest now that you have single-handedly removed all doubt from the matter.

Dripping sarcasm aside, you are just inventing a scenario that does not exist. Mr Mohr did not invent the Mohrenkopf candy and then name it after himself. You understand that... right?

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Fact is, it's not being used at present times, other than for the candy.
Can you please explain how you can present that as "fact"? Or is it a "strong suspicion"?
  #576  
Old 20.06.2020, 14:28
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Thread on Reddit discussing it from 2 years ago... https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland...he_mohrenkopf/

Some quotes from the "I don't like it" crowd, which seems to include mostly Swiss...

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Part of my family is black and hates the term. Their children were bullied for their skin colour and called Mohrechopf regularly by classmates. "We've been doing x since y years" is never a valid argument. I'm not saying you're making up that there's black people who are ok with it, I believe you that that is your experience but just because part of the black Swiss are ok with it doesn't mean all are.
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In my experience they are not fine with it, they're basically forced to tolerate the name by by society. If they speak out against it they get ridiculed for "making a fuss about something trivial" by triggered conservatives who make up all kinds of excuses like "it's not meant in a bad way" etc.
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This is a nice example of how insecure our country has become. Someone is asking a company to change a word that indeed has become offensive (that's why other companies have changed that name a long time ago). And everybody loses their shit like someone is taking away a basic human right or they would have to go back to school to re-learn a word.
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I mean these exact pastries had the name "Negerkuss" some time ago now. Because they couldnt say it like that it was changed to "Mohrenkopf". If people show, that they are offended by this, why cant we just change it again? It's not much effort, and if we help make the world a bit more cofortable for the people around us, why not?
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While I agree with you generally, I think your example with "niggerhead" is lacking because, while "nigger " is still used to discriminate, "Mohr" isn't. I've never heard anyone using the word Mohr outside of a historical context. So like f.i. "Siech", "Mohr" has lost all of it's offendable value.

EDIT: Apparently Mohr is still used as an insult in some regions. My Zurich arrogance just made me assume it is never used.
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My grandparents and other people in their area use Mohr sometimes (and in a rather demeaning way). I'm not sure if...

-while "nigger " is still used to discriminate, "Mohr" isn't.
-"Mohr" has lost all of it's offendable value.

...generally holds truth in reality, that might differ strongly with the regional language changes all over Switzerland.
So logically speaking, to say it has no racial connotations is just wrong. It is a simple thing to change the name of a candy, other countries have recognised and done it and it should just be done asap in CH without any additional fuss.

Last edited by Chuff; 20.06.2020 at 14:38.
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Old 20.06.2020, 16:20
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

Some time ago there was a dispute here on EF re. KKK costumes being worn by a bunch of teenagers in a German canton during a carnival. I asked my neighbour's daughter who was of a similar age at the time what she thinks about it all and she pointed out that some kids in Appenzell might not know it's racist....she said it partially joking, even adding some people think very low of other/certain cantons. Kids are smarter than we think. Those who use certain words as racial slurs would find something else to bully and to diminish. imho It is a question of education or common sense or lack thereof, I think.
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Old 20.06.2020, 16:20
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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It’s an attempt to shut down the dialogue by suggesting newcomers’ opinions are invalid. A sad attempt at mobbing.
Not really. In fact it's the opposite, that's what those -ism labels are for.
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Good effort. Not quite enough to defend racism, but we'll give you credit for trying. Yep, you're wrong. Have a good weekend
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  #579  
Old 20.06.2020, 16:25
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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I had never even heard of this candy until this thread was started a few years ago. I've seen these chocolate-covered mousse things in shops in Bern but I can't recall seeing them named Mohrenkopf here.
.
Judging by the Laderach thread effect on people.....high time to taste it!
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Old 20.06.2020, 16:32
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

In my country it´s called (or maybe was called) a negerzoen (negro´s kiss)
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