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Old 19.09.2017, 10:15
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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To me, it's about not teaching children from an early age that even the most subtle form of racism is acceptable.
It is 'subtly racist' from your POV, not mine.

Would anyone be offended if the damn thing came with white instead of brown chocolate and was called a "Wiisskopf"?
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:18
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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But if you teach kids to respect everyone equally, you are avoiding the pitfall of singling out people or groups.

Treat everyone how you yourself would like to be treated, no ifs or buts.

Isn't that a far easier lesson for a kid?
Unless they are wearing a football jersey of a different color.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:18
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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It is 'subtly racist' from your POV, not mine.

Would anyone be offended if the damn thing came with white instead of brown chocolate and was called a "Wiisskopf"?
If only Wiiskopfs were made, they'd be called racist for lack of diversity. The PC brigade will never be happy, by default.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:19
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Great effort, but to be honest: "the black man" is in that tradition pretty clearly the devil. We discussed that till hell and back in the thread wether or not "Schmutzli" is racist and it simply is a demon, not a person of different skin color.
It might not have been meant as racist to start, but primary school kids are not linguistic experts.
When she refers to adult males with dark skin as black men, and plays a game called 'whose afraid of the black man' she doesn't know the history of the phrase and does not really go a research it, she just sees that both are black men, and maybe she should be afraid.

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It is not racist. Schwarzer Mann does not mean black person
This is so ed up. Just because we call now people with a darker skin tone "black" does not mean that any person labeled as "black" means the same. Black, the proper blackish black, in German has a different meaning. It could mean conservative Christians (in politics) but also a sinister person. See also Schwarzfahren, Schwarzarbeit. If you need something to think about, then better think why a black person should actually be called Schwarzer in German given its true meaning and if not Schwarz is actually a racist term.
Schwarzer Mann might not, but Schwarzermann does, try to distinguish between the two when you are saying them as a child.
  #65  
Old 19.09.2017, 10:20
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Unless they are wearing a football jersey of a different color.
"Jersey"


[shudders...]



  #66  
Old 19.09.2017, 10:24
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Schwarzer Mann might not, but Schwarzermann does, try to distinguish between the two when you are saying them as a child.
Yep, Negro in Spanish means black and as we all know, all native Spanish speakers are born racists.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:30
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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This has always puzzled me. In what way are golliwogs and Robertson's marmalade branding racist? Is there any hint of supremacy or derogatory comment in putting an image of a black child on a jar of marmalade, or of colouring a child's doll black? Is Barbie racist too, because she's white? What about the Smurfs, or the Simpsons? To me, it seems that attempting to eradicate golliwogs and imagery of black children in a white society is a supremely racist act -- sanitization, or ethnic cleansing, by another name! Would we prefer to see children in the UK and elsewhere grow up without any knowledge of other skin types and cultures?
The golliwog as a character was a bit more than just a black child/doll. Taken from wikipedia it is described as having "black skin, eyes rimmed in white, clown lips and frizzy hair".

I might agree with you if the Golliwog was just a doll of a black boy, but it's obviously so much more.

As for the charge of "sanitization, or ethnic cleansing", one derogatory character was removed, not all images/dolls of anything not white. You are making quite a reach with that argument.
  #68  
Old 19.09.2017, 10:31
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Would anyone be offended if the damn thing came with white instead of brown chocolate and was called a "Wiisskopf"?
When old Swiss people behaving in a terrible way, I call them Nazis*. I mean they speak German and behave terribly so it's close enough for me with my upbringing.

Why should they be offended? - I grew up on WWII comics and Airfix model tanks and the Swiss weren't on our side so they must have been on the other side.

It's my tradition and I'm not going to change it to suit some PC Swiss.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:34
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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To me, it's about not teaching children from an early age that even the most subtle form of racism is acceptable.
But isn't the Mohrenkopf an interesting thing? It allows you to teach your child so many things: That Schokokopf is not an appropriate substitute, the meaning of words, that one word can have different meanings, the change of definition of words (Mohr for the Moors to generally applied to people with darker skin than the one which was prevalent where the word was used), the Moors in Spain, the Muslim faith, evolution of words (Mohr - Neger - Schwarzer - Farbiger), the different meanings of black and colored, what black and colored means in South Africa, the Apartheid, segregation of People, how that could happen after the events of WW II, how Israel came to be, what a post card painter from Austria has to do with that, the meaning of the word brown, how chocolate is also brown, where chocolate come from, the "discovery" of America, the usage of " ", irony and sarcasm, political propaganda, political correctness.

And all just that because of a little candy warped in aluminum foil, no wait is aluminium? Here we go again...
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:35
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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When old Swiss people behaving in a terrible way, I call them Nazis*. I mean they speak German and behave terribly.
Most of the old Swiss people that I know do NOT speak German.

And why only the old ones?

You are clearly an ageist!

Tom
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:36
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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You are clearly an ageist!
Oh stop being so PC you wop lover.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:37
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Oh stop being so PC you wop lover.
Says the kraut lover!

Tom
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:41
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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It is 'subtly racist' from your POV, not mine.

Would anyone be offended if the damn thing came with white instead of brown chocolate and was called a "Wiisskopf"?
Moor isn't comparable to White though is it? If you came up with something actually comparable then maybe it would offensive.

Aryankopf perhaps? I'm sure that would go down well
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:42
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Some years back, I was having a conversation on a train with an individual who referred to himself as a Gypsy. He got very worked up about the terms Roma and Sinti saying he associated with neither group and using those terms to refer to Gypsies in a blanket way was very offensive and excluding of other groups.
Might have been Yenish. They're often forgotten, when people talk about gypsies nomadic people. And their treatment by the folks and government sadly is a rather dark (black?) page in Switzerland's history book.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:43
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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But isn't the Mohrenkopf an interesting thing? It allows you to teach your child so many things: That Schokokopf is not an appropriate substitute, the meaning of words, that one word can have different meanings, the change of definition of words (Mohr for the Moors to generally applied to people with darker skin than the one which was prevalent where the word was used), the Moors in Spain, the Muslim faith, evolution of words (Mohr - Neger - Schwarzer - Farbiger), the different meanings of black and colored, what black and colored means in South Africa, the Apartheid, segregation of People, how that could happen after the events of WW II, how Israel came to be, what a post card painter from Austria has to do with that, the meaning of the word brown, how chocolate is also brown, where chocolate come from, the "discovery" of America, the usage of " ", irony and sarcasm, political propaganda, political correctness.

And all just that because of a little candy warped in aluminum foil, no wait is aluminium? Here we go again...
Time and a place. The place should be school, not Migros, if an actual lesson is to be learnt.
  #76  
Old 19.09.2017, 10:46
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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It might not have been meant as racist to start, but primary school kids are not linguistic experts.
When she refers to adult males with dark skin as black men, and plays a game called 'whose afraid of the black man' she doesn't know the history of the phrase and does not really go a research it, she just sees that both are black men, and maybe she should be afraid.

Schwarzer Mann might not, but Schwarzermann does, try to distinguish between the two when you are saying them as a child.
It is both time "schwarzer Mann". Either it was a very stupid idea to apply schwarz to darker skinned people, or someone knew very exactly what he was actually doing. You pick.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:46
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Time and a place. The place should be school, not Migros, if an actual lesson is to be learnt.
Nope. Any situation is a learning situation. If you restrict your kids to only learning in school they miss out on a full and rounded education.




ETA - Each to their own, though...
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:47
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Time and a place. The place should be school, not Migros, if an actual lesson is to be learnt.
As I said in another thread, parents should not leave their children's education solely in the hands if teachers. Everyday life should be full of lessons.

ETA Beaten by the swift fingers of Sandgrounder.
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:47
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

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Moor isn't comparable to White though is it? If you came up with something actually comparable then maybe it would offensive.

Aryankopf perhaps? I'm sure that would go down well
There's a really offensive white yogurt salty drink, popular in Turkey called Ayran.

Bloody racist Turks!
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Old 19.09.2017, 10:47
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Re: Is the Mohrenkopf a racist piece of candy?

I think the Brits, Americans, Dutch, French and Belgians in this thread might want to go and sit in their rooms for a while and have a little think about the irony of accusing Swiss people of racism for using an old fashioned name for a cake.

Just sayin', like...
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