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Old 24.10.2017, 09:30
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Good News

Good News this morning on Swiss radio. According to Novartis this good news is that they have been successful in selling more drugs against cancer.


Surely this is bad news???!
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Old 24.10.2017, 09:36
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Re: Good News

I guess it depends on whether the drugs are effective or not?
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Old 24.10.2017, 09:38
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Re: Good News

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Good News this morning on Swiss radio. According to Novartis this good news is that they have been successful in selling more drugs against cancer.


Surely this is bad news???!
I'm going for the glass half full...

Perhaps it means more cancers are treatable with a growing range of drugs?

More people I know seem to be surviving it, so let's hope that's the case.
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Old 24.10.2017, 09:40
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Re: Good News

I think you are living on AHV Busby. Will you be refusing drugs later, or only the ones from Novartis?

The Swiss pharmaceutical industry is very successful, and is an important export.

If Novartis doesn't sell enough drugs, there will be no funds for research!
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Old 24.10.2017, 09:56
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Re: Good News

Good News that a Swiss business is doing well.
Good News that the pharmaceutical giants, lead by another Swiss company, are successfully developing treatments against more and more cancers.
Good News that much of the income from increased sales is ploughed back into further research into even more treatments.

Yup, sounds pretty much like Good News all round to me.
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Old 24.10.2017, 12:40
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Re: Good News

I dont care where the drugs come from, as long as they are working. Which they seem to be.
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Old 24.10.2017, 13:05
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Re: Good News

Didn't you all know? Big Pharma is evil incarnate and is deliberately hiding cures and treatments for cancer. Their cunning plan to achieve this aim is to develop and market more and more potentially life-saving pharmaceuticals.

Because...evil and chemtrails etc etc. And autism.
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Old 24.10.2017, 13:26
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Re: Good News

Obviously really good news would be that the number of people diagnosed with cancer is falling. The crux of the matter being that our 'lifestyle' resultung in dirty air, water, land and lots of plastic matter (and all the rest) is the reason for such 'good news'.


Carry On James...!
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Old 24.10.2017, 13:44
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Re: Good News

Another option could be that worldwide more people have gained access to meds they need. Or perhaps they sold more since there's more people on earth and also more elderly people compared to the previous years which just makes it a logical thing to happen.

Without knowing why they sold more meds it's hard to say this is good or bad.
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Old 24.10.2017, 13:57
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Re: Good News

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Obviously really good news would be that the number of people diagnosed with cancer is falling. The crux of the matter being that our 'lifestyle' resultung in dirty air, water, land and lots of plastic matter (and all the rest) is the reason for such 'good news'.
Correlation does not imply causation.

Though certain types of cancer are indeed caused by human evolution, cancer has probably existed for as long as life itself. Way before plastic. Or whatever "lifestyle choices" you are conjuring.

(Here's some interesting things I got to see in the Natural History Museum last week).

The fact that more people are being diagnosed with cancer doesn't mean that there is necessarily more cancer - in some cases, simply that we have evolved our science to the point where early discovery, and hopefully treatment, are more common.

For example, breast cancer deaths have decreased (hurray). "Fun" fact: it's got less to do with prevention, and more to do with better treatment.

In fact, cancer related deaths in general have declined. Because of those treatments.

They keep my mom alive. And it's not because the Big Pharma wants to suck my money, but because their treatment works. If that means more money for research and more lives saved, hurray for increased sales!

Because if cancer killed you, there is no reason to buy the treatment anymore, is there?
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Old 24.10.2017, 14:25
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Re: Good News

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Didn't you all know? Big Pharma is evil incarnate and is deliberately hiding cures and treatments for cancer. Their cunning plan to achieve this aim is to develop and market more and more potentially life-saving pharmaceuticals.

Because...evil and chemtrails etc etc. And autism.
Wait, I thought Big Pharma was deliberlately making people sick so they could then sell them medicine to get better, just not quite to being cured. Or something like that??

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...The fact that more people are being diagnosed with cancer doesn't mean that there is necessarily more cancer - in some cases, simply that we have evolved our science to the point where early discovery, and hopefully treatment, are more common...
I agree with this. Even as recently as 50 years ago people just died and most of the time you didn't know why or bother to ask, unless they'd been murdered or if they maybe had a disease that could spread. That was simply the roll of the dice of life, so to speak. Today we have early detection and treatments for all sorts of diseases, not just cancers.
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Old 24.10.2017, 16:01
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Re: Good News

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Obviously really good news would be that the number of people diagnosed with cancer is falling. The crux of the matter being that our 'lifestyle' resultung in dirty air, water, land and lots of plastic matter (and all the rest) is the reason for such 'good news'.


Carry On James...!
Any evidence for that?

Smoking is the biggest "lifestyle" cause of cancer, and that is going down (in the west).

Historically, air quality was significantly worse as well - think London and Paris smogs that killed thousands; of course, now we see that in China.

The main reasons for cancer diagnoses increasing are simply people living longer, and better diagnosis.

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk....es-increasing/
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Old 24.10.2017, 16:31
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Re: Good News

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Smoking is the biggest "lifestyle" cause of cancer, and that is going down (in the west).
I wonder how long it going to be before that is replaced by obesity as a cause, another lifestyle condition?
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Old 24.10.2017, 17:01
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Re: Good News

People are getting older and the older you get the higher the chances to get ill. Cancer is nothing new - people simply used to die much earlier of causes that are now easily treatable. Oncology for example is much less relevant in Africa - why, because large numbers of the population still die at 45 of some disease that has been eradicated in the West decades ago.

And of course access to medicines has significantly increased. More access = more drugs sold.

Other factors may be in the environment and what are deemed 'lifestyle choices', but again, see above - increasing age is the biggest factor.

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I wonder how long it going to be before that is replaced by obesity as a cause, another lifestyle condition?
Already a very major (possibly even the main) cause of heart disease
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Old 24.10.2017, 17:13
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Re: Good News

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Good News this morning on Swiss radio. According to Novartis this good news is that they have been successful in selling more drugs against cancer.
Surely this is bad news???!
Not for shareholders.

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.....
I agree with this. Even as recently as 50 years ago people just died and most of the time you didn't know why or bother to ask, unless they'd been murdered or if they maybe had a disease that could spread. That was simply the roll of the dice of life, so to speak. Today we have early detection and treatments for all sorts of diseases, not just cancers.
Nowadays we're so good at detecting that we treat illnesses that wouldn't even have broken out before dying (at 90 or so)

Or as my ophthalmologist professor once said: Everybody has cataract but most people die before it's a problem.
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Old 24.10.2017, 17:35
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Re: Good News

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Wait, I thought Big Pharma was deliberlately making people sick so they could then sell them medicine to get better, just not quite to being cured. Or something like that??



I agree with this. Even as recently as 50 years ago people just died and most of the time you didn't know why or bother to ask, unless they'd been murdered or if they maybe had a disease that could spread. That was simply the roll of the dice of life, so to speak. Today we have early detection and treatments for all sorts of diseases, not just cancers.
An Assistent Ärztin was amazed today to meet a quote "real-life" version of a genetically inherited rare-blood disease that I happen to have (it was completely unrelated to my current symptoms). I thought that she was going to ask me for a selfie with her.

This is the third time this has happened to me (including a 7-year partnership with a renowned cancer specialist). The disease is really not so rare - beta thalassemia minor - which according to current (lack of research) should not have an impact on my current symptoms and, as I told her, and as I've been informed my entire life, harmless. When the research is far enough to decide on that, it might explain few things.

I'm all for research, but good research.
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Old 25.10.2017, 07:08
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Re: Good News

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I think you are living on AHV Busby. Will you be refusing drugs later, or only the ones from Novartis?

The Swiss pharmaceutical industry is very successful, and is an important export.

If Novartis doesn't sell enough drugs, there will be no funds for research!
Yes the years are going by and all my friends and acquaintances are vanishing. Most of them with cancer or heart problems. At the moment, approaching 80 I'm still fit and well but one never knows what's just around the corner.
Should I be diagnosed with cancer I think I'll be relying upon EXIT as a way out.


Anyway my OP wasn't meant as an attack upon Novartis, I wouldn't have a reason for that, it was just to show the paradoxes we live with when we use words without thinking.


Nevertheless, it has to be said that there are plenty of examples of industries who stand proud in the name of success but who are destroying the very soil we live from.
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Old 25.10.2017, 11:22
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Re: Good News

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Nevertheless, it has to be said that there are plenty of examples of industries who stand proud in the name of success but who are destroying the very soil we live from.
Well that's true for pretty much everything, isn't it? You can find something wrong with every industry and every company in it. Banks, pharma, chemicals, weapons, oil, F&B, cars ... The list is endless and they all do something supposedly wrong at some point or another. At the end of the day, these are private companies that have one objective, which is to make money. No need to expect anything else from them. If there's a demand, they supply - while highly simplified, that's really all there's to it.
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Old 25.10.2017, 11:55
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Re: Good News

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Well that's true for pretty much everything, isn't it? You can find something wrong with every industry and every company in it. Banks, pharma, chemicals, weapons, oil, F&B, cars ... The list is endless and they all do something supposedly wrong at some point or another. At the end of the day, these are private companies that have one objective, which is to make money. No need to expect anything else from them. If there's a demand, they supply - while highly simplified, that's really all there's to it.
Weeeeeeeell. Profit more often over looks morality, environmental impacts and health.

I think the crux of the debate here is that Novartis are selling more cancer treatments is a sure sign that Cancers are on the increase in society and that Novartis has the patents to certain popular cancer medicines.

In the long run, its profitable for them to have as many cancer patients using their treatments as possible. Doctors and Hospitals will use the medicine if it shows good results, or if they are paid to use and sell them.

The Pharmaceutical industry isn't all about being in our best interest.

I am not talking antivaxxers or other conspiracy theories, but time and time again Mega-corporations are taken to court regarding putting profit ahead of environmental and health benifits. But they still try to get away with all sorts of criminal acts, because they are rich and can hide in the loopholes.
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Old 25.10.2017, 12:01
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Re: Good News

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Weeeeeeeell. Profit more often over looks morality, environmental impacts and health.
Of course but as said, no one cares that much cause demand <--> supply

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I think the crux of the debate here is that Novartis are selling more cancer treatments is a sure sign that Cancers are on the increase in society
It's not, see above - ageing population, better access, earlier detection.

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In the long run, its profitable for them to have as many cancer patients using their treatments as possible. Doctors and Hospitals will use the medicine if it shows good results, or if they are paid to use and sell them.
Yes of course, that's the very nature of their business

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The Pharmaceutical industry isn't all about being in our best interest.
Of course not, but neither is any other industry. No private company does anything for the greater good...

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I am not talking antivaxxers or other conspiracy theories, but time and time again Mega-corporations are taken to court regarding putting profit ahead of environmental and health benifits. But they still try to get away with all sorts of criminal acts, because they are rich and can hide in the loopholes.
Sure, but ethics or the lack of ethics in private corporations are really a different and very complex topic
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