Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 15.12.2017, 00:50
John_H's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Up above Nyon
Posts: 3,789
Groaned at 106 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 4,950 Times in 1,937 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
So how much had he had to drink? In your opinion would he have been below, or about at the legal limit, a little over it, or massively over it, i.e. drunk?

Would you have felt it sooo bad if he'd had, say, one glass​ of wine? Over the course of a whole evening? Or two? Where would you draw the line?

I'm just trying to put some context in here, as it appears that several of the posters here are judging other people by standards far beyond those thought reasonable in law, and I wonder why.
He was well over the limit.. In appearance he was completely fine but he'd drank quite a lot .. At least a bottle of wine and maybe 6 x 330ml beers over a 4-5 hour period. He was a big guy and could drink that quite easily and appear to be fine..

It's the feeling of I'm ok vs the reality of actually i'm not that's often blurred..
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank John_H for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 15.12.2017, 02:26
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,837
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,179 Times in 7,306 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

I know my alcohol limits for my specific case; I can have two "units" of alcohol (a unit is a glass of regular-strength beer or a small glass of wine) in the first hour and one per hour thereafter, and stay under the limit. I'm a big guy. For smaller people, and especially for women, those amounts are too much.

As I keep telling people, it's a blood-alcohol limit, not a prohibition -- but the only sure way to stay under the limit is not to drink alcohol at all.

By the way, do NOT try to import any concepts of safe quantities to drink before driving from England or Wales. The blood alcohol limit for drivers there is 0.8 mg/mL, some 60% higher than in Switzerland (0.5 mg/mL).
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 15.12.2017, 07:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,322
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,688 Times in 1,608 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
He was well over the limit..
How do you know for sure? Did you pul out your kit and breatherlise him?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 15.12.2017, 07:47
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 4,020
Groaned at 37 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 5,612 Times in 2,012 Posts
McTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
This is it.. What are you supposed to do..? I've had somebody leave my place by car after drinking, we tried, many of us to persuade him but no "he was fine".. He drove home with wife and kid.

My choices were physical violence or calling the cops.. or letting him go. Neither driving nor fighting nor calling the cops would have been a good situation. But in the end we let him go, nothing happened, we tried our best to dissuade him but nothing happened. I didn't like it but neither did i like any of the other outcomes.

I hope nobody has to make those choices about me.


Know exactly how it feels as it happened to us once here, and the person left because he said "I only live 3 km away". But so much can happen in 3 km. This is why we now try and tackle the issue at the start of the evening and make our views clear on the matter. If you come to our house, you don't drink and drive. The word has gone round now and people (who normally would take their car for a few hundred yards) now walk to us or indeed come prepared with their designated driver.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 15.12.2017, 07:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 4,020
Groaned at 37 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 5,612 Times in 2,012 Posts
McTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
Yes, perhaps. But I and most people haven't. I absolutely agree that drink driving is a terrible thing and everything that can be done to prevent it is worthwhile. However, we're also adults who take responsibility for our actions, and I'd had to think that a friend would deem me incapable of not making my own travel arrangements and feel the need to ask such an inane question.


We'll have to beg to differ on this.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 15.12.2017, 08:11
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,539
Groaned at 193 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 18,093 Times in 7,371 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
How do you know for sure? Did you pul out your kit and breatherlise him?
"At least a bottle of wine and maybe 6 x 330ml beers over a 4-5 hour period.".

That's around the equivalent of half a bottle of whisky (20 units). The 50mg limit allows a man of average height and weight to drink less than 3 units of alcohol.
I think you can be pretty sure he'd be over the limit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 15.12.2017, 09:06
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,150
Groaned at 2,042 Times in 1,527 Posts
Thanked 34,705 Times in 16,486 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
Excuse me?! The drunk ripped the door off, as she was getting into the car!
I thought that she was the drunk, not the guy in the car?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 15.12.2017, 09:29
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 43
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 44 Posts
TwentyEightTripsLater has made some interesting contributions
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
By the way, do NOT try to import any concepts of safe quantities to drink before driving from England or Wales. The blood alcohol limit for drivers there is 0.8 mg/mL, some 60% higher than in Switzerland (0.5 mg/mL).

As recently as 1999, the BAL where I got my license was 1.0 mg/mL. When they pushed 0.8 here in the US it was to effectively ensnare a number of people just under the legal limit but over 0.75 (never pinched but several friends were). While I respect it, 0.5 isn't even one drink for some people and says to me CH is quite serious about this problem.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 15.12.2017, 10:50
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,837
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,179 Times in 7,306 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
I thought that she was the drunk, not the guy in the car?

Tom
I think the plot of the mini-film may be a little more sophisticated than that, Tom. I saw the accident as a deeply and tragically ironic twist: the drunk would-be driver is dissuaded from driving by her friends (yay!) but then mown down by some other drunk driver (boo!) whose girlfriend hadn't talked him out of driving.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 15.12.2017, 10:55
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,150
Groaned at 2,042 Times in 1,527 Posts
Thanked 34,705 Times in 16,486 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
I think the plot of the mini-film may be a little more sophisticated than that, Tom. I saw the accident as a deeply and tragically ironic twist: the drunk would-be driver is dissuaded from driving by her friends (yay!) but then mown down by some other drunk driver (boo!) whose girlfriend hadn't talked him out of driving.
It's not clear from the video that the driver was drunk, he looked more in shock.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 15.12.2017, 10:56
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,837
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,179 Times in 7,306 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
As recently as 1999, the BAL where I got my license was 1.0 mg/mL. When they pushed 0.8 here in the US it was to effectively ensnare a number of people just under the legal limit but over 0.75 (never pinched but several friends were). While I respect it, 0.5 isn't even one drink for some people and says to me CH is quite serious about this problem.
Switzerland, all of Europe except England and Wales (Scotland is 0.5 and Northern Ireland is heading that way, shortly, too), Australia, NZ, every civilized country in the world... It's mostly just the US that thinks it's fine to put reaction-impaired people on the roads. But even there, some states have applied a limit of 0.5.

For Australian readers possibly getting confused about the famous "0.05" vs Switzerland's 0.5, it's all in the units. BAC is measured in Australia in g/100 mL, and in Switzerland and most other places in mg/mL. 0.05 g/100 mL = 0.5 mg/mL.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 15.12.2017, 11:03
John_H's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Up above Nyon
Posts: 3,789
Groaned at 106 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 4,950 Times in 1,937 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

I remember some pubs in Scotland installed breath test machines .. Eventually they were removed when it became clear that everybody was just using them to try get the highest score amongst their mates..
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank John_H for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 15.12.2017, 11:16
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 11,763
Groaned at 194 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 18,549 Times in 7,780 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
Still, if you know me at all and you invite me to your home then such a question is just silly. If you don't know me and have invited me, please don't assume I am going to get drunk before I walk in the door.
We tend to err on the side of a generic jokey 'whose turn is it to drive tonight?' when filling glasses if we have friends over for dinner. Most of the time we know anyway as the drivers always tend to be the same people and they are careful about how much alcohol they consume.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 15.12.2017, 11:21
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,273
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
We tend to err on the side of a generic jokey 'whose turn is it to drive tonight?' when filling glasses if we have friends over for dinner. Most of the time we know anyway as the drivers always tend to be the same people and they are careful about how much alcohol they consume.
It doesn't have to be a long sermon. Just simply mentioning the issue is enough (at least for people who aren't bent on driving while pissed at the start of the evening).

I have caught some flak in the past for stopping people from driving immediately after a heated argument.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 15.12.2017, 11:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,044
Groaned at 348 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,400 Times in 5,497 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
I know my alcohol limits for my specific case; I can have two "units" of alcohol (a unit is a glass of regular-strength beer or a small glass of wine) in the first hour and one per hour thereafter, and stay under the limit. I'm a big guy. For smaller people, and especially for women, those amounts are too much.

As I keep telling people, it's a blood-alcohol limit, not a prohibition -- but the only sure way to stay under the limit is not to drink alcohol at all.
According to the Widmark formula, 2 beers with 3dl each and 4.8% alcohol(volume) get a man weighing 70kg to about 0.5%% blood alcohol (0.62%% for women of the same weight). IIRC a man decomposes about 0.15%% per hour (0.12%% for women)(wide bandwith of actual values) so a healthy man who weighs 120kg decomposes about one unit per hour. The initial two beers (units) get him to around 0.3%%. These are just approximations of course, a number of additional factors will affect actual values.

However, if you're the driver in an accident anything above 0.2%% may (probably will, I guess) result in you being found (partially) guilty as that's the limit where your abilities start being measurably impaired.

Since about 2015 the insurance companies must hold the guilty person(s) responsible and have him pay part of the costs (and reduce disability payments where applicable!) if he was intoxicated or was heavily speeding ("Raser"), the percentage depends on the severity of his fault and economic wellbeing.

What's been remarked is true: If you know or have to assume that someone is unfit to drive but don't keep him from driving regardless, you may become complicit in grave cases (but I think you can't use a significant amount of force to keep him from driving, you're not the police).

In case of a hit and run where people (are likely to have) got hurt, the passengers must call help immediately if they can, especially if they have a working mobile phone. Otherwise they're guilty of failure to provide mandatory help.

The driver has to make sure he won't get hindered by his passengers thus a (very) drunk passenger should be placed in the backseat (make sure they're belted as that reduces their grabbing range). As long as a drunk co-driver remains passive it's a non-issue, but if he does cause an accident, e.g. by grabbing the steering wheel or by using the handbrake, the driver may well be found partially guilty even if he hasn't done anything else wrong. So it's not mandatory but definitely recommended to have (very) drunk people sit in the back. Think of them as children at that point.

Also see this inverview by 20min (in German only, sorry).
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 15.12.2017, 11:56
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,888
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
I'm a big guy. For smaller people, and especially for women, those amounts are too much.
I'm lucky in that my OH very rarely has a drink, so he's always the designated driver. He bought 6 beers last Christmas, and we still have 2 left.

But in reference to 22 yards post, I had a breathalyzer night with my best mate when she was teaching the course in the police (this was about 11yrs ago). The results were shocking. We both drink vodka, and all the drinks were carefully measured, but the difference in our breathalyzer results only proved how individually our bodies respond to alcohol. It took the 3rd vodka for me to go over the drink drive limit, whereas my friend (who is 5 in taller than me) reached the limit early into her 2nd drink.

A few days later, we repeated the 'experiment' with Chardonnay. I hit the drink drive limit half way through the second glass, and my friend was teetering on the limit from one glass.

Going back to McTAVGE earlier post, there's now a very palatable Mojito flavoured energy drink available at Coop for CHF 1, called '2 Go'. I heartily recommend it.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 15.12.2017, 12:35
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,250
Groaned at 121 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

If we go out and I'm driving, I'll maybe have a beer and a couple of glasses of wine over 3-4 hrs, including food. I'm a biggish guy (116 kg), so I think that's probably a reasonable amount.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 15.12.2017, 12:47
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,506
Groaned at 346 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 14,209 Times in 6,227 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post

However, if you're the driver in an accident anything above 0.2%% may (probably will, I guess) result in you being found (partially) guilty as that's the limit where your abilities start being measurably impaired.
Do you have any reference for this? I think any attempt to do this, either by police or insurance, would be on very dodgy ground, legally speaking. Either you're conforming with the law or you're not. Indeed, the insurance company would have no right to this information anyway, and the police would not record it, except to confirm that a test was performed which proved negative.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 15.12.2017, 12:53
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,888
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
Do you have any reference for this?
Considering the law in Switzerland states 0.5 milligrams per millilitre, this makes interesting reading....

Quote:
Penalties and driving ban The law recognises three degrees of seriousness for drink driving offences:
  • 0.25 to 0.39 mg/l or 0.05 to 0.079%: If you drive with a breath alcohol content of 0.25 to 0.39 mg/l or a blood alcohol level of 0.05 to 0.079%, you will receive a warning and a fine.
Edit: I'm getting confused over differing info on the legal limit. Some sites say 0.5 and some are saying much lower.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 15.12.2017, 13:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,505
Groaned at 65 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 3,641 Times in 1,981 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't Drink and Drive

Quote:
View Post
If we go out and I'm driving, I'll maybe have a beer and a couple of glasses of wine over 3-4 hrs, including food. I'm a biggish guy (116 kg), so I think that's probably a reasonable amount.

How much of that is fat?

Alcohol is not fat-soluble, it only solves in water.
The BAC is calculated only for the water-y parts of your body.

That's why women always have a higher BAC from the same amount of alcohol, even if they weigh the same: they just have more body-fat.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please don't text and drive! McTAVGE Daily life 45 03.09.2016 09:54
'Drink and Drive' initiative in .... xkcd International affairs/politics 5 26.01.2013 00:38
Women don't generally drink pints here... transition Daily life 144 18.10.2010 23:28
don't drive to Flumserberg this morning! [24 Jan 09] grumpygrapefruit Transportation/driving 3 25.01.2009 09:20
Don't drink with your friends Caleb Jokes/funnies 13 06.12.2007 14:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0