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Old 20.12.2017, 10:50
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Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

A wife in the canton of Aargau has been convicted of a criminal offence for going into her husbandís email account and reading and downloading information without his knowledge.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20171220/swi...usbands-emails
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Old 20.12.2017, 11:25
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

When you feel the urge to read OH's e-mails without their permission, the level of trust is already very, very low...she could have asked her spouse for a divorce without doing anything illegal.
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Old 20.12.2017, 14:47
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

but, he had affairs with several women for some time. Who is most at fault??? I can't believe he sued her for this. Is she not entitled to know whose body fluids she is sharing?
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Old 20.12.2017, 15:00
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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but, he had affairs with several women for some time. Who is most at fault???
For divorce under Swiss law "fault" has normally zero relevance (Art. 112 and 114 Swiss Civil Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a112). Exception if there was violence, fraud, and some other clause (Art. 115 Civil Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a115). But infidelity is not an exceptional reason. https://www.weka.ch/themen/recht/sch...-moeglich-ist/

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I can't believe he sued her for this.
If she has no trust she can request a divorce anytime. Also in case of "just because". No reason needed.

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Is she not entitled to know whose body fluids she is sharing?
No. If she does not trust the partner she should have either no, or only protected sex.
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Old 20.12.2017, 15:12
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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No. If she does not trust the partner she should have either no, or only protected sex.
I wasn't talking from a law perspective, I don't know if everything can always be so black and white. I think there are some quite 'clever' people who can hide affairs, so are you saying that anyone who suspects something is different with their partner should not have sex or divorce them as they might be a liar, hiding an affair, suffering from a mid-life crisis (not saying this includes affairs), or mental health issues?

and what about if she was going through a period of low self-esteem, and then become a bit paranoid? She should ask for a divorce?

obviously, this would be heaps easier to discuss in person. I find it interesting to see other sides of the story, and am not having a go at you, just discussing it!
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Old 20.12.2017, 15:14
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

At a company I used to work for, I definitely felt like I was in the minority, as I was one of the few married people there that wasn't having an affair. I believe most of the partners were unaware, or maybe they were aware and ignored it.
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Old 20.12.2017, 15:23
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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and what about if she was going through a period of low self-esteem, and then become a bit paranoid? She should ask for a divorce?
At least one should not resort to illegal means to find the truth. Infidelity, having and hiding an affair is not illegal under Swiss law.

Edit: Read the linked news report. Looks like the wife at least tried to find out if it is illegal and may have discovered that in that particular case it is a gray area and might be illegal.
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Old 27.12.2017, 16:59
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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I wasn't talking from a law perspective...

or mental health issues?
This is a very good point.

If a partner is suffering from e.g. bipolar disorder and spending out of control, would the court still see in favour of the wife who was searching for some explanation?
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Old 21.12.2017, 18:12
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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but, he had affairs with several women for some time. Who is most at fault??? I can't believe he sued her for this. Is she not entitled to know whose body fluids she is sharing?
How do you know he is sharing body fluids with his lovely wife !
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Old 22.12.2017, 13:26
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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but, he had affairs with several women for some time. Who is most at fault??? I can't believe he sued her for this. Is she not entitled to know whose body fluids she is sharing?
She's at fault. Obvious. We're in Switzerland don't forget. Women shouldn't be allowed near a computer. Frankly, I'm amazed the court thought she was capable of using a computer...

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The law is not stupid, it refers to a broader range of cases not just little games between spouses. As far as I know the right to secrecy of correspondence is a constitutional right. What if the situation was reversed and the judge had to deal with an abusive spouse who had his wife's correspondence under strict surveillance? There are people like this. When the law should be kinder? How flexible should it be?

<snip>

Edit: the more I think of it, the more I understand the Swiss court's decision. In this internet era we all have the feeling that we know better than people who work in a certain field, which is dangerous.

They were married FFS. Call me traditional, but when I got married, it was a case of "what's mine is yours" thing. You know the whole "in sickness and health etc. etc." Without a prenup to say they are to keep separate "data" why could she not use the marriage thing as the reason for accessing shared information...?!

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Reading data protected by a password or code without the account owner’s permission is illegal under article 143 of the Swiss criminal code, he said.
Surely the very act of sharing the passwords is an implicit allowance of access and thus sharing?!
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Old 22.12.2017, 14:40
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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She's at fault. Obvious. We're in Switzerland don't forget. Women shouldn't be allowed near a computer. Frankly, I'm amazed the court thought she was capable of using a computer...
ROFLMAO

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They were married FFS. Call me traditional, but when I got married, it was a case of "what's mine is yours" thing. You know the whole "in sickness and health etc. etc." Without a prenup to say they are to keep separate "data" why could she not use the marriage thing as the reason for accessing shared information...?!
When this thread was started I began wo wonder ..... marriage is a contract. But - since they removed the "Schuldfrage" and infidelity is of absolute no interest to the judges anymore - what is this contract actually about??
About "the one who can has to feed the other if necessary"? It's the only thing left I can think of as having children does no longer require marriage (one has to bring it up - the other has to pay).

So my attitude "marriage - what for?" is only supported.
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Old 27.12.2017, 17:14
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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So my attitude "marriage - what for?" is only supported.
Long term stability, pariciularly in view of Swiss (and Italian, etc.) hereditary issues.

Also, in case of illness.

Tom
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Old 22.12.2017, 14:49
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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Surely the very act of sharing the passwords is an implicit allowance of access and thus sharing?!
watson.ch provides a little more detail.

When asked by the judge why she hadn't asked her husband if he was Ok with her accessing the account she replied "No, he definitively wouldn't have been Ok. He would have threatened me."

She was perfectly well aware that she was acting against his will and intentions.

Plus of course the reply shows that the marriage was far from functioning the way most people expect it to.
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Old 20.12.2017, 14:50
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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...she could have asked her spouse for a divorce without doing anything illegal.
what if she only suspected the affairs, if there were no affairs maybe she didn't want a divorce?
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Old 21.12.2017, 12:15
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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what if she only suspected the affairs, if there were no affairs maybe she didn't want a divorce?
If she suspected the affairs she could have confronted him, do people never talk these days?I can't imagine someone having a double life being able to hide it for too long. Or they never knew each other very well in the first place, that's a possibility too.

Anyway, apparently not only was she concerned about the legality, but she also knew the answer before reading his e-mails. I too happen to be of the same opinion, that the law is too harsh in this case, or applied too harshly, but it doesn't help to discuss this. She can take the case further and appeal the decision, pretend or ask for psychological damages, set a legal precedent of exception from the law etc. Don't know, I'm not a lawyer.

Last edited by greenmount; 22.12.2017 at 10:15. Reason: grammar
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Old 21.12.2017, 16:40
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

I have to say I think the law is stupid. If you lie and cheat you deserve to be found out, and if the only way to find out the truth is by reading someone else's emails or SMS, What'sapp etc then so be it.

If you can't trust your partner then you can't trust them to tell the truth when confronted, what choice do you have? Is it ok to hire a private detective to follow them and spy on them, but not read emails?
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Old 21.12.2017, 16:46
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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I have to say I think the law is stupid. If you lie and cheat you deserve to be found out, and if the only way to find out the truth is by reading someone else's emails or SMS, What'sapp etc then so be it.

If you can't trust your partner then you can't trust them to tell the truth when confronted, what choice do you have? Is it ok to hire a private detective to follow them and spy on them, but not read emails?
Aren't you mixing law and morality ? Law needs to be fair. And impartial. And blind, if the need be. Morality is a different matter altogether.

"Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding." - R'as Al Ghul.
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Old 21.12.2017, 18:03
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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I have to say I think the law is stupid. If you lie and cheat you deserve to be found out, and if the only way to find out the truth is by reading someone else's emails or SMS, What'sapp etc then so be it.

If you can't trust your partner then you can't trust them to tell the truth when confronted, what choice do you have? Is it ok to hire a private detective to follow them and spy on them, but not read emails?
When the trust is gone the relationship is factually over already, she just didn't admit it yet. Perhaps she wanted confirmation, perhaps to put blame, but if she had found nothing they'd have still separated.

I wonder if people would react the same if the roles were switched.
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Old 22.12.2017, 10:07
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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I have to say I think the law is stupid. If you lie and cheat you deserve to be found out, and if the only way to find out the truth is by reading someone else's emails or SMS, What'sapp etc then so be it.

If you can't trust your partner then you can't trust them to tell the truth when confronted, what choice do you have? Is it ok to hire a private detective to follow them and spy on them, but not read emails?
The law is not stupid, it refers to a broader range of cases not just little games between spouses. As far as I know the right to secrecy of correspondence is a constitutional right. What if the situation was reversed and the judge had to deal with an abusive spouse who had his wife's correspondence under strict surveillance? There are people like this. When the law should be kinder? How flexible should it be?

As for the cheating part: IMHO if you can't trust your partner to tell the truth even when confronted it basically means the marriage is over. Not from a legal standpoint, but from a moral one. What will someone do, live all their life with the fear they can't trust their partner? Obviously, in this case the guy was a jerk who not only did he cheated, but dragged his wife into a law court after she found out. Most people would have expected at least some remorse from his part, but hey ho...some people are just that - utter, incorigible jerks. That still doesn't imply that he didn't have the right to secrecy of correspondence. Infidelity is not illegal, not a crime, and there were no restrictions of his basic rights.

Edit: the more I think of it, the more I understand the Swiss court's decision. In this internet era we all have the feeling that we know better than people who work in a certain field, which is dangerous.

Last edited by greenmount; 22.12.2017 at 10:20.
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Old 04.06.2019, 18:23
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Re: Swiss court convicts woman for reading husbandís emails

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When you feel the urge to read OH's e-mails without their permission, the level of trust is already very, very low...she could have asked her spouse for a divorce without doing anything illegal.
According to the media report from the Swiss Federal court, they were already separated (but not divorced yet) and living in separate places. So most likely the marriage was already over.
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