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  #41  
Old 13.02.2018, 17:38
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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Fasnacht seems to be a very binary thing in Switzerland: most people I know seem to absolutely love it or absolutely hate it.

Is this purely a matter of personal taste or is there a social element to it? Is it about social class/ peasants vs townies/ sonderbundskrieg?

Or not?
Not.

Fastnacht is liked by all levels of society. Or disliked
Fastnacht is also very different in the different cantons. Basler Fastnacht for example is very political (I simply love their "Schnitzelbänke" - the simple rhymes with often very subtle but virulent statements. Many think Basler Fastnacht is boring as it is very organized, also the music groups that wander through the city, mainly Pfiife und Trummle (floots and drums).

Other places it's all about going crazy, drunk, out of line. Which I guess is actually the original reason. As I mentioned earlier, it's the catholics 'misbehaveday'.
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  #42  
Old 13.02.2018, 17:40
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

I agree that it is a love hate thing. I hate the music so very very much... I sometimes think the US Govt are missing a trick by not playing it at Guantanamo Bay if they want prisoners to fess up. Some of the floats and costumes however, are worthy of merit.
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  #43  
Old 13.02.2018, 17:54
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

I think these are different things.

The Catholic sytle of fasnacht is fairly regulated. You join a clique and the costume you wear is pretty strictly regulated. Those costumes haven't changed much since generations, and things like the carved wooden masks are actually passed on as heirlooms and you don't just get to wear one from day one but need to earn that right.

Of course the serious fun isn't on the parades but only starts in the after parties.

The political floats and speeches thing is different. Whereas the Catholic Fasnacht was all about having a bit of a bang before Lent began, or maybe even the pagan predecessor of that, the speeches and floats thing is borrowed from the Rhineland style of carneval which only started in Napoleonic times. The powers that be had forbidden free speech but were still curious what the people thought, so they decreed there would be one day a year that anybody could speak their minds without any fear of repercussion. The date of that switched around during history, but initially was totally separate from Fasnacht. The two events somehow got combined into one somewhere down the line, possibly because the authorities decided that one day of uncontrolled revelling would be better than two.
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  #44  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:09
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

However, Fasnacht lasts more than just one day. Given that start and end are determined by Christian "special days", probably determined by Christian liturgy, I'd expect that to be a thing of old and somewhat contradict your theory, amogles.
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  #45  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:12
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

Zwingli was a puritan. Fasnacht was already too " erotic" for him.
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I think there's a bit of everrything.

Zwingli banned Fasnacht in Zürich, and although it has been revived, they just copied stuff from other cities and it shows. It's play acting and not genuine.

Basel also went the protestant way in the Reformation, but somehow managed to recover a lively Fasnacht tradition. No idea how or why.

I think there is also a social class thing. The more educated and snobbish the person, the less likely they are to admit to liking Fasnacht (but many will go anyway ... so they don't always walk the talk)

And country folks like it more than townies.

That's my observation at least.
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  #46  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:39
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

Ah... they're just a bunch of young guys who finally get to make a lot of racket with their oil barrels while waking everyone up. You'll survive
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  #47  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:42
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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Other places it's all about going crazy, drunk, out of line. Which I guess is actually the original reason. As I mentioned earlier, it's the catholics 'misbehaveday'.
There sure is a very Catholic element in some areas. Being a good Catholic can mean: shag thy neighbor's plastered wife, spend a few minutes in the confessional, rattle off a few Hail-Maries and / or Our-Fathers, and hey prest, you're free of sin again. Rinse and repeat next year.

Poor Protestants. Well, at least they don't have a Purgatory to fear. That's for the Catholics only.
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  #48  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:51
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

As I've learnt from young Swiss participants over the past 20+ years - it's a great chance to escape reality and get drunk.
Mostly in areas where this is shunned (Switzerland).

Good for them.
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  #49  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:54
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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However, Fasnacht lasts more than just one day.
Indeed, in individual towns it's normally a Thursday-Wednesday thing, though in ambrosian towns such as ours it's a Thursday-Sunday thing, as we start lent 4 days later.

However, other town do theirs earlier, so it really goes on for about a month, perhaps more.

In Ticino, it's drinking and political floats and stuff.

Tom
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  #50  
Old 13.02.2018, 18:58
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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As I've learnt from young Swiss participants over the past 20+ years - it's a great chance to escape reality and get drunk.
Mostly in areas where this is shunned (Switzerland).

Good for them.
I understand that in the more distant past it was also more sexual. The symbolism of wearing a mask is that you are actually somebody else - so if you shag somebody else' wife you're not really accoutable.

Of course when that coincides with Valentine's day ....
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  #51  
Old 13.02.2018, 19:01
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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Of course when that coincides with Valentine's day ....
However, this year it doesn't, as the normal ones end tonight (or rather the wee hours of tomorrow), and the Ambrosian one only starts Thursday evening.

Tom
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  #52  
Old 13.02.2018, 19:12
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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I understand that in the more distant past it was also more sexual. The symbolism of wearing a mask is that you are actually somebody else - so if you shag somebody else' wife you're not really accoutable.

Of course when that coincides with Valentine's day ....
Easy to understand: There was no In Vitro conception available and this was a way to get offspring if you couldn't conceive with your legal husband and produce an heir for the farm. Likely more fun than the clinical ways of today...

Same thing with Karlsbad and Marienbad and Baden and so on for princely families who needed offspring badly. The healing waters were just a cover, young officers abound did the deed.
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  #53  
Old 13.02.2018, 19:48
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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As I've learnt from young Swiss participants over the past 20+ years - it's a great chance to escape reality and get drunk.
Mostly in areas where this is shunned (Switzerland).

Good for them.
Um, since when exactly is acohol shunned in Switzerland? Being drunk on a weekend night seems to be the norm for most of Zurich and in my experience even more so in the countryside...
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  #54  
Old 13.02.2018, 21:03
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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There sure is a very Catholic element in some areas. Being a good Catholic can mean: shag thy neighbor's plastered wife, spend a few minutes in the confessional, rattle off a few Hail-Maries and / or Our-Fathers, and hey prest, you're free of sin again. Rinse and repeat next year.

Poor Protestants. Well, at least they don't have a Purgatory to fear. That's for the Catholics only.
Yep, the catholics have the best life ever: They can misbehave all they want, start all over every week (and their mischief - including having fathered the neighbours plastered wife's kid - is being kept a secret by the church-servants who give them weekly absolution).
For this reason even purgatory is complete BS, unless the priest didn't get to them fast enough the last week they live but it had to be invented to fincance church via letters of indulgence for the reeeaaallly stupid ones who had not figured out the weekly-system.

They have the most fun of us all but they're also the biggest hypocrites on earth.

And on top of that they wake OP up at 5 am once a year
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Old 13.02.2018, 22:40
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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And on top of that they wake OP up at 5 am once a year
They don't in Ticino, in fact I never wake before 7:10AM, and still have time to shower and get to work by 7:30!.

Tom
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  #56  
Old 13.02.2018, 23:25
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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Yep, the catholics have the best life ever: They can misbehave all they want, start all over every week (and their mischief - including having fathered the neighbours plastered wife's kid - is being kept a secret by the church-servants who give them weekly absolution).
For this reason even purgatory is complete BS, unless the priest didn't get to them fast enough the last week they live but it had to be invented to fincance church via letters of indulgence for the reeeaaallly stupid ones who had not figured out the weekly-system.

They have the most fun of us all but they're also the biggest hypocrites on earth.

And on top of that they wake OP up at 5 am once a year
"Always hold your head up...but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level", wrote once a wise man
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  #57  
Old 14.02.2018, 01:14
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

I'm going to go on record and say that I'm in favour of Fasnacht (at least the Basel one). It's a way to howl at the moon and shed the skin of winter. And it's art.

It's just a few days; what's not to like?
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Old 14.02.2018, 10:30
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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I'm going to go on record and say that I'm in favour of Fasnacht (at least the Basel one). It's a way to howl at the moon and shed the skin of winter. And it's art.

It's just a few days; what's not to like?
I have nothing against the festival itself....my only issue was the 5am wake up call! Technically its my own fault for not checking the programme for the event when I received it but I was expecting it to be a daytime/evening thing not a 5am outside my apartment thing ! I'll know to check and keep my windows closed next year!
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Old 15.02.2018, 10:32
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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I have nothing against the festival itself....my only issue was the 5am wake up call! Technically its my own fault for not checking the programme for the event when I received it but I was expecting it to be a daytime/evening thing not a 5am outside my apartment thing ! I'll know to check and keep my windows closed next year!
Did you sleep through Schulsilvester? Though around here they make much less noise than a Guggemusig.
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Old 15.02.2018, 11:18
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Re: Swiss Tradition...but why?

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Did you sleep through Schulsilvester? Though around here they make much less noise than a Guggemusig.
Never heard of that one!!
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