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  #121  
Old 06.04.2018, 18:39
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

Buy him a bottle of Diamond White.
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  #122  
Old 06.04.2018, 20:53
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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No, read the link bellow (it works now). It explains the origins too, it's some sort of metaphor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic)



Yep. You can easily filter the ones who're friendly because they think you're needy when they realise they don't really have any reason to pity you.:-)It's a good test. Some don't take it very well.
I cannot imagine what it feels like, to have a patronizing attitude to such extent as to expect somebody to befriend me because they are: lost, desperate, needy...or whatever these assumptions are. I have local friends picking my brains to figure out how to go about things. Maybe it is the EE rough times prep, or maybe it is just common sense..but I do not think that the stereotype of a lost or calculating foreigner holds up anymore, tbh. While I relate to loyalty and reliability here, it gels with me and I appreciate it myself, I also see locals ditching nostalgia and risk aversion..and venturing out of their old friend comfort zone, to foreigners, also because they are available while their kindy friends hesitantly and slowly pulling out their months worth overbooked calendars. At the end of the day, kindness is all that matters, even if it is not reciprocated. Investments makes us better folk and gratitude kills negativity. Time is a biatch, but random good deeds are not so time consuming. Keeps the community together.
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  #123  
Old 06.04.2018, 22:59
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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But why catch 22 - mainly the 22.
It a book that was required reading in high-school.

"Explanation of the novel's title

The title is a reference to a fictional bureaucratic stipulation which embodies forms of illogical and immoral reasoning.[7] The opening chapter of the novel was originally published in New World Writing as Catch-18 in 1955, but Heller's agent, Candida Donadio, requested that he change the title of the novel, so it would not be confused with another recently published World War II novel, Leon Uris's Mila 18.[18] The number 18 has special meaning in Judaism (it means Alive in Gematria; see Chai) and was relevant to early drafts of the novel which had a somewhat greater Jewish emphasis.[19]

The title Catch-11 was suggested, with the duplicated 1 paralleling the repetition found in a number of character exchanges in the novel, but because of the release of the 1960 movie Ocean's Eleven, this was also rejected.[18] Catch-17 was rejected so as not to be confused with the World War II film Stalag 17, as was Catch-14, apparently because the publisher did not feel that 14 was a "funny number." Eventually, the title came to be Catch-22, which, like 11, has a duplicated digit, with the 2 also referring to a number of déjà vu-like events common in the novel.[19]"

And a movie starring Alan Arkin.

I've read the book and seen the movie, both several times.

Tom
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  #124  
Old 06.04.2018, 23:04
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

It's the American equivalent of "Heidi".

Tom
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  #125  
Old 07.04.2018, 09:26
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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I cannot imagine what it feels like, to have a patronizing attitude to such extent as to expect somebody to befriend me because they are: lost, desperate, needy...or whatever these assumptions are. I have local friends picking my brains to figure out how to go about things. Maybe it is the EE rough times prep, or maybe it is just common sense..but I do not think that the stereotype of a lost or calculating foreigner holds up anymore, tbh. While I relate to loyalty and reliability here, it gels with me and I appreciate it myself, I also see locals ditching nostalgia and risk aversion..and venturing out of their old friend comfort zone, to foreigners, also because they are available while their kindy friends hesitantly and slowly pulling out their months worth overbooked calendars. At the end of the day, kindness is all that matters, even if it is not reciprocated. Investments makes us better folk and gratitude kills negativity. Time is a biatch, but random good deeds are not so time consuming. Keeps the community together.
Yeah, me neither. On second-thoughts though, I'm not even sure if it's a patronising attitude or whether it is specific for the "locals" (but that's another discussion alltogether). I think some people really want to be kind, more inclusive or open, or whatever...but that's not good enough for a "beautiful friendship" :-), at least not in my book. But then again, there are friends...and friends, one learns to enjoy some good time and not think further. I like to give back at least what I received, if not more..it's only natural.

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It a book that was required reading in high-school.

"Explanation of the novel's title

The title is a reference to a fictional bureaucratic stipulation which embodies forms of illogical and immoral reasoning.[7] The opening chapter of the novel was originally published in New World Writing as Catch-18 in 1955, but Heller's agent, Candida Donadio, requested that he change the title of the novel, so it would not be confused with another recently published World War II novel, Leon Uris's Mila 18.[18] The number 18 has special meaning in Judaism (it means Alive in Gematria; see Chai) and was relevant to early drafts of the novel which had a somewhat greater Jewish emphasis.[19]

The title Catch-11 was suggested, with the duplicated 1 paralleling the repetition found in a number of character exchanges in the novel, but because of the release of the 1960 movie Ocean's Eleven, this was also rejected.[18] Catch-17 was rejected so as not to be confused with the World War II film Stalag 17, as was Catch-14, apparently because the publisher did not feel that 14 was a "funny number." Eventually, the title came to be Catch-22, which, like 11, has a duplicated digit, with the 2 also referring to a number of déjà vu-like events common in the novel.[19]"

And a movie starring Alan Arkin.

I've read the book and seen the movie, both several times.

Tom
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It's the American equivalent of "Heidi".

Tom
Thanks, Tomasso. We can count on you. :-) It's interesting you had to read this novel in school, had no idea...trying to do a quick mental comparison with my list of compulsory school reading - negative, nope, didn't find any equivalent of Catch22! :ROFL: We're at "Heidi" level. I'm kidding, but will check if they included The Bald Soprano and a few more - they should've. lol.

So the editors settled for the hidden, repetitive beauty of number 22. It almost sounds like it couldn't have been any other way now. :-) People get used with everything.
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  #126  
Old 07.04.2018, 15:55
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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Yeah, me neither. On second-thoughts though, I'm not even sure if it's a patronising attitude or whether it is specific for the "locals" (but that's another discussion alltogether). I think some people really want to be kind, more inclusive or open, or whatever...but that's not good enough for a "beautiful friendship" :-), at least not in my book. But then again, there are friends...and friends, one learns to enjoy some good time and not think further. I like to give back at least what I received, if not more..it's only natural.
Two stereotypers bitching about assumed other people's stereotyping.

Thank you for making my day.
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  #127  
Old 07.04.2018, 16:52
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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Two stereotypers bitching about assumed other people's stereotyping.

Thank you for making my day.
And you shush with yer stereotypes, stereotyper

"Beautiful frienship" made me chuckle. That's a myth! People just gotta make me laugh. I am easy.
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  #128  
Old 07.04.2018, 18:29
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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Two stereotypers bitching about assumed other people's stereotyping.

Thank you for making my day.
You're welcome. I feel so special you singled us out.


Btw, read doropfiz's manual of handling the Swiss - elaborated by an "observant" Swiss (thanks MC), and some other posts...you made me laugh too. Enjoy your day. :-)

Last edited by greenmount; 07.04.2018 at 18:59. Reason: be nice, be nice..
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  #129  
Old 16.04.2018, 09:37
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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Instead, he said, one should give the Swiss lots of space between invitations.
He taught us these very mechanical steps.
  • Ask them to come along with you to football.
  • They smile, nod, and say they're busy.
  • Count 22 days (= over three weeks) from then, and mark it in your diary.
  • During that time, do not make any advances.
  • Next, tell them - without issuing an invitation - that two weeks from now (don't specify the date) there will be another football event.
  • Wait 4 days, or into the next working week if you know them only at work.
  • Tell them again, that the next football event is on day-month and time-of-day, and ask them whether they'd like to join you.
  • Before they can answer, immediately specify your transport arrangements (it's at stopname on busline number) and that we could go there together or meet at (caféname) near the busstop.
  • If they don't join you this time, mark 22 days in your diary. Repeat.
  • In the meantime, get busy on your own. Along the way, casually mention to them that you've been up the mountain, to the concert, for a walk, to your German class, etc.

He said all this waiting is necessary because, to like you, they need to be sure you are not going to cling to them as a needy, helpless, lonely Ausländer. They like to know you're moving around society competently, doing your own thing, so that, if they do let themselves move closer to you, they will not be entering a bottomless pit of social responsibility.

He said the point is not that anyone is defective. It's just that as newcomers we had a whole bunch of needs (how things work, how to find company for the weekend, how to learn the language, where to go for the papers, etc.) and that Swiss friends take the needs of their friends very, very seriously (this, too, has been my experience, and a great blessing!). Therefore, anything that sounds simply open and friendly in a culture in which one is already established, could be understood to be cloying, here.

As soon as one demonstrates that one is Getting On With It, and can show that one is self-determined, and progressing, etc., their fear of taking on a Needy Case subsides, and then the invitations will gradually become reciprocal, and easy-going hanging out will become possible, and friendships can grow.
Having been here and fully getting on with it for a long time, I can confirm the following.... wow, what a lot of bull$hit your teacher said!

Who needs friends like those????
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  #130  
Old 16.04.2018, 12:25
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

As a Swiss, I find the "manual" rather amusing (and slightly disturbing). I do wonder if the teacher was Swiss...

It reads like instructions on how to carefully, slooowly approach a dangerous animal and avoid for it to feel threatened

Am I the only one who just cares about normal social behavior and doesn't particularly distinguish between Swiss and non-Swiss? It quite literally never crossed my mind that I would need to tailor my approach when trying to establish a new friendship of sorts.
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  #131  
Old 16.04.2018, 14:24
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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........Am I the only one who just cares about normal social behavior and doesn't particularly distinguish between Swiss and non-Swiss? It quite literally never crossed my mind that I would need to tailor my approach when trying to establish a new friendship of sorts.
The other thing is one won't make a friend adapting to behaviour one (THINKS) is what the other person wants.

When I meet people I gotta be me. Those who stick might become close friends
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  #132  
Old 16.04.2018, 18:15
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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Am I the only one who just cares about normal social behavior and doesn't particularly distinguish between Swiss and non-Swiss? It quite literally never crossed my mind that I would need to tailor my approach when trying to establish a new friendship of sorts.
Definitely not. But it's EF for Pete's sake, just go with the flow...

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As a Swiss, I find the "manual" rather amusing (and slightly disturbing). I do wonder if the teacher was Swiss...
.
I don't doubt doropfiz (or at least I guess she's saying it as she knows it), but I think it might or could be a matter of generations. Or just about some peculiar Swiss, we can safely agree that people are different.

Last edited by greenmount; 16.04.2018 at 18:27.
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  #133  
Old 16.04.2018, 19:18
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Re: How to make friends with a Swiss person...

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As a Swiss, I find the "manual" rather amusing (and slightly disturbing). I do wonder if the teacher was Swiss...

It reads like instructions on how to carefully, slooowly approach a dangerous animal and avoid for it to feel threatened

Am I the only one who just cares about normal social behavior and doesn't particularly distinguish between Swiss and non-Swiss? It quite literally never crossed my mind that I would need to tailor my approach when trying to establish a new friendship of sorts.
Exactly - and you make friends with a Swiss person, like you make friends with anyone, anywhere.
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