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Old 18.03.2018, 23:30
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Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

So I was this Saturday with my wife at 15:59 disposing glass bottles in the recycling point; 16:00 is the limit time to do so on Saturdays in my community. As soon as the bells from the church rung 16:00 two guys, wearing security guard suits, came out of a car parked around, approached to me and told me that I was using the facility out of the allowed time and asked me for and ID. At first I thought it was a joke and I tried to argue with them in my best German, but no, they wrote in his report that I was disposing glass out of allowed times. The only thing I could get from them was stating in the paper that I was there exactly at 16:00. When I asked them for a copy of the report and his ID card (I wanted to ensure they would not modify later this '16:00' they had written down) one of the guys started to get very aggressive and my wife asked me to leave it and go.

I couldn't get this out of head for the whole weekend so I decided to share it with you. Do you think the people in the Gemainde will be reasonable and just give me a warning or send me a fine? How much should I expect for it? Is this going to be a problem for the time I need to get my work permit renewed?

Jeez just by 1 minute!
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Old 18.03.2018, 23:36
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

You should have told them to piss off.

Tom
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Old 18.03.2018, 23:41
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

I'd guess that someone who lives within earshot of the glass recycling station has complained about the noise. That happened near where I live. The complaint was both the crashing of the glass, and the talking as people were throwing the bottles into the containers. The police mostly have better things to do, but if they can show that they were there, that may pacify the person who made the complaint.

In our case, there was a lot of huffing and puffing, but I never actually heard of anyone getting a fine. People just felt sufficiently intimidated and learnt to respect the rules precisely, and the poor folk who live near that spot got some peace, at least out of hours.
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Old 19.03.2018, 01:31
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

I strongly suggest you visit the Gemeinde - in person - tomorrow and complain!
All politely of course .
You've been throwing glass in before the bell rang. You did not arrive at/after 4 pm.
Security guards (police too, btw.) must give you their names/show their id's when asked for it. They a) refused to do that (but that's no problem, if they were official it will be easy for the Gemeinde to know who they were) and b) they were bullying.

Seriously, do not wait until you hear from them. If they want to fine you for one minute pay up I guess but do not let the behaviour and the overly strict telling time slip.
Behave consternated - not angry.

Unless of course you go there every Saturday at 15.59h and the whole town has had it with you and they decided to wait for you there this time
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Old 19.03.2018, 03:21
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

This is Switzerland, summed up in a couple of sentences ;-)
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Old 19.03.2018, 08:14
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

If they're not Police you don't need to show them your ID. These private security firms often act beyond their station liking to think they can do as they please and that the uniform gives them power. It doesnt and they can't.

Not only go and express concern but make an official complaint as well.
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Old 19.03.2018, 08:21
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

i have had a similar issue,with parking, an "official",advising me, telling me what i could or should not do, in an extremely pious way,and at times verging on aggressive, i reminded him that i was not here because i have no work in the uk,that my wages are higher in the uk, but my wife was asked to come here as there are no qualified swiss people capable of doing her job,
these people get drunk on their own sense of superiority,when they are constantly dealing with people that are here through desperation and on 3,6,9 month visas, it happens on building sites the whole time,
i asked him if he understood english, he replied no, so i told him to f... off,
he understood that,....what a liar
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Old 19.03.2018, 08:57
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

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i have had a similar issue,with parking, an "official",advising me, telling me what i could or should not do, in an extremely pious way,and at times verging on aggressive, i reminded him that i was not here because i have no work in the uk,that my wages are higher in the uk, but my wife was asked to come here as there are no qualified swiss people capable of doing her job,
these people get drunk on their own sense of superiority,when they are constantly dealing with people that are here through desperation and on 3,6,9 month visas, it happens on building sites the whole time,
i asked him if he understood english, he replied no, so i told him to f... off,
he understood that,....what a liar
I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that your body language, tone, and volume helped him figure it out.

What on earth does the general reason you are here in Switzerland have to do with the specifics of where, when, and how you park? The plod and semi plod rarely react well to "Go catch some real criminals", and this world wide.

@Danielfb: I live within earshot of a recycling depot. I'm not bothered if someone deposits their glass close to the posted hours, but there are some who do so at the oddest hours (03:00 is the record), which is a bother.

I suspect there may have been complaints, and the Gemeinde decided to send some people to do something about it (evidently the sign doesn't work on it's own). Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee's shift probably finished at about 16:30 on Sat, so that's when they catch the "criminals"...

If they actually gave you a citation and fine, then go along to the Gemeinde, at exactly opening time. It will probably take about 15 minutes post opening until you can actually explain what was going on. If you feel argumentative, then point that 15 minutes delay out to them. If you remain calm and say "Finden Sie das auch ein wenig lächerlich?" they'll probably drop the charges and you'll escape the electric chair.

I doubt that they'll deport you for a single jam jar dropped at 16:00:01.
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Old 19.03.2018, 09:50
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

Out of curiosity I searched for recycling fines in Baden, and my friend Mr Google brought this up:

Entsorgungsregement der Stadt Baden:

https://www.baden.ch/public/upload/a...sreglement.pdf


If you look at 37 (page 11), it says that:

§37 Strafbestimmungen

1 Widerhandlungen gegen Vorschriften dieses Reglements werden mit Busse bis zu CHF 500 geahndet. Gegen einen Strafbefehl kann der Gebüsste beim Stadtrat innert20 Tagen schriftlich Einsprache erheben. Es gilt das Verfahren gemäss § 112 des Gemeindegesetzes.


(roughly)
Violations of these regulations can be punished with a fine of up to CHF 500. The fine may be appealed in writing to the City Council within 20 days. The procedure according to § 112 of the municipal law applies.

Bear in mind the above applies to the full range of recycling sins, some more consequential than others.

And as others have said, the question remains if the people who stopped you had any official standing to issue fines, or not.

---

So that's a worst case scenario.
Best case? No fine.
Reality? Who knows.

Hopefully one of the Baden contingent will be along to comment on usual practices in the city.

---

But bottom line:

Don't do it again.
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Old 19.03.2018, 09:56
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

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I couldn't get this out of head for the whole weekend so I decided to share it with you. Do you think the people in the Gemainde will be reasonable and just give me a warning or send me a fine? How much should I expect for it?
Best case: just a written warning since it was the first time

Worst case: fine + "Schreibgebühr" = three-figure amount

BTW: 4 pm is totally ridiculous IMNSHO.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 19.03.2018 at 15:04. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 19.03.2018, 10:19
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

Thank you all for your comments.

Following your advice, I am planning this afternoon to pay the Gemainde a visit and have a talk with them. It is true that I was still there at the very same hour the allowed time expires, but come on, I was harassed by these two 'gorillas' that didn't even know the names of the streets in my village.

Until now I was of the opinion that Swiss bureaucracy was very reasonable. Let's see after today. I'll keep you updated with the out come.
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Old 19.03.2018, 10:23
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

The consequences...



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Old 19.03.2018, 10:23
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

Go to the Gemeinde and grovel in your best Deutsch
Tell them you were looking for the right colour slot for that last bottle etc
They will probably slap your wrist and let you off.
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Old 19.03.2018, 12:37
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

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4 pm is totally ridiculous IMNSHO.
9PM around here, 7/7, also Sundays and holidays it's allowed.

We don't separate colors, either.

Tom
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Old 19.03.2018, 12:44
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

When you go to the Gemeinde I would bring up the fact that the guys firstly wouldn't identify themselves and also wouldn't give you a copy of the report.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Gemeinde doesn't have a clue what you are talking about when you go there.

Sounds like a couple of disgruntled locals dressing up like officials, trying to put the frighteners on an unsuspecting foreigner for not toeing the line...
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Old 19.03.2018, 12:47
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

I didn't even know there was a "curfew" for disposing glass

Then again the glass containers are right outside my apartment, so the person who'd actually be "bothered" (?) by about five second of "noise" (?) would be me


What a ridiculous situation. As others say, go to the Gemeinde and explain, as absurd as it is. If these people that showed up were even legit, because I'm not so sure about that either.


This isn't "Switzerland", though, that's just bored pricks and you can find some of those everywhere.
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Old 19.03.2018, 12:55
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

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This isn't "Switzerland", though, that's just bored pricks and you can find some of those everywhere.
True.

There are a plenty of "jobsworths" in the U.K. too.

Do a search and you find gems like:

Quote:
A traffic warden issuing a litter warning to an angry biker for accidentally dropping a "full" pack of cigarettes.
Quote:
Jobsworth traffic warden slaps parking fine on pregnant woman’s car despite her ‘rushed to hospital’ note
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Council jobsworths swipe couple’s ‘Welcome Home’ doormat blaming health and safety and then charge them £20-a-week for storing it
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Old 19.03.2018, 12:59
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

This was really in Baden? A lot of the glass recycling areas in Baden are not near residences.

Or do you live in a village outside of Baden?

Is there a sign posting the recycling times where you were?

In our village I see people taking stuff on Sundays, which is definitely not an okay time. No one cares as the recycling is not near where anyone lives.
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Old 19.03.2018, 13:02
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

A couple of points to be made here.
1) Private security guards can't give out fines. The most they can do is deliver a report to however has employed them (the commune).
2) They have an obligation to identify themselves - even the police do. If they're making unreasonable demands on you and fail in their own obligations, they're going to have call the police if they want to go any further (and I doubt the police is going to move unless there's a real breach of the peace).
3) Don't sign anything you don't agree with. The report should state the facts and nothing more. If you don't like what's written there, you have just as much right to change it as they do. Under no circumstances do you have to admit liability under Absatz 3.2 b of Paragraph a.3 of Regelung 333/1982. Just write "I was at the Dechetterie at 15:59 on Saturday, disposing of my glass and other recyclables.".
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Old 19.03.2018, 13:41
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Re: Fine for disposing glass out of allowed times

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1) Private security guards can't give out fines. The most they can do is deliver a report to however has employed them (the commune).
This is not always the case.

While recycling stations are often on municipal land they can also, by agreement with the municipality, be placed on private land, e.g. next to the parking lot of a large [rental] complex.

In some such complexes, the landlords can assign a company of private security guards to see that things run smoothly. Especially if the housing complex is large, the caretaker will not be expected to manage everything. These guards can then have the authority to issue fines for offences such as noise, loitering, littering and incorrect parking.
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