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Old 20.06.2018, 18:23
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Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

I found a job at the UN in Geneva as an IT Consultant.

According to the HR, I was told I wouldn't pay taxes, I wanted to believe this was true so I searched online and I understand that UN employees (even consultants) are exempt from taxes but if the country still wants to make you pay (as in the case of Switzerland), they have no say in the matter.

Here is what I read from the UN site:

Quote:
15. TAXATION

Article II, section 7, of the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations provides, inter alia, that the United Nations, including its subsidiary organs, is exempt from all direct taxes, except charges for public utility services, and is exempt from customs restrictions, duties and charges of a similar nature in respect of articles imported or exported for its official use. In the event any governmental authority refuses to recognize the exemptions of the United Nations from such taxes, restrictions, duties or charges, the Contractor shall immediately consult with the United Nations to determine a mutually acceptable procedure. The United Nations shall have no liability for taxes, duties or other similar charges payable by the Contractor in respect of any amounts paid to the Contractor under this Contract, and the Contractor acknowledges that the United Nations will not issue any statements of earnings to the Contractor in respect of any such payments.
But Bern says otherwise: https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mi...-property.html

Also an article: Some UN consultants thought their income was tax free. They were wrong.

So the message is clear, but I still have three questions:

1) The law stated is for citizens and foreign nationals, but I have an F permit (temporary residence) so, will this change something?

2) If I pay, which I will, do I still pay the full tax (alv, avh, pension...) as a normal job?

3) I am living in vaud, but will be working in geneva ... someone please tell me I won't pay taxes in both contons


I am kinda sad b/c I have been unemployed and i was glad to find this job but pays around 4K/month and once I pay full tax, transport, insurance, rent, utilities, food ... I will have too little left. It sucks but hopefully I am trying to get some good news from anyone who knows about this
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Old 20.06.2018, 18:50
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

A lot depends on your contract as not everyone is exempt from taxes.
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Old 20.06.2018, 19:03
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

That is correct. I also doubt you can be tax free with a Permit. There are a couple of exceptions to this rule, but neither are UN agencies.

Talk to the HR people who are dealing with your hiring. They won’t lie to you.
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Old 20.06.2018, 19:24
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

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That is correct. I also doubt you can be tax free with a Permit. There are a couple of exceptions to this rule, but neither are UN agencies.

Talk to the HR people who are dealing with your hiring. They won’t lie to you.
The HR said I wouldn't pay taxes on it, and even went to say I would have diplomatic immunity. But I think he was talking from his own situation as a staff member. Consultants are short-term employees and are identified as holders of the H legitimization card, which in response to immunity are mention as having none:

Quote:
Legitimation card of type “H” for non-staff members of IO’s: no immunity.
https://www.eda.admin.ch/..../immunity-person.html


and here:
Quote:
"6.1. Consultants
Foreign nationals who are not staff members and who are hired by the international organisations as consultants are issued a type “H” legitimation card provided that the duration of their contract is equal to at least three weeks. Those who are hired for less than three weeks do not receive a legitimation card but the international organisation must register them with the Swiss Mission.

Foreign nationals already residing in Switzerland at the time they are hired and who possess a permit are not issued a legitimation card, and the international organisation does not need to register them at the Swiss Mission. The same applies to Swiss nationals.

The above are subject to Swiss law, in particular, legislation covering social security and taxation."
I found the above from someone here in EF working at UN geneva as a consultant: source

I found other EF posts stating similar story and there are no tax exemptions the Swiss gov makes in this case.

I just hoped my permit would somehow play a role in here. Because with 4K salary, I would have to pay 1K every month in taxes,
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Old 20.06.2018, 20:08
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

You need to check if you're allowed to work first. You need permission from the Swiss authorities.

"Provisionally admitted foreign nationals are persons who have been ordered to return from Switzerland to their native countries but in whose cases the enforcement of this order has proved inadmissible (violation of international law), unreasonable (concrete endangerment of the foreign national) or impossible (for technical reasons of enforcement). Thus their provisional admission constitutes a substitute measure. Provisional admission may be ordered for a duration of twelve months and be extended by the canton of residence for another twelve months at a time. The cantonal authorities may grant provisionally admitted foreign nationals work permits for gainful employment irrespective of the situation on the labour market and in the economy in general. A residence permit granted at a later date is subject to the provisions of Art. 84 (5) of the Aliens Act."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...orlaeufig.html
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Old 20.06.2018, 20:15
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

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You need to check if you're allowed to work first. You need permission from the Swiss authorities.

"Provisionally admitted foreign nationals are persons who have been ordered to return from Switzerland to their native countries but in whose cases the enforcement of this order has proved inadmissible (violation of international law), unreasonable (concrete endangerment of the foreign national) or impossible (for technical reasons of enforcement). Thus their provisional admission constitutes a substitute measure. Provisional admission may be ordered for a duration of twelve months and be extended by the canton of residence for another twelve months at a time. The cantonal authorities may grant provisionally admitted foreign nationals work permits for gainful employment irrespective of the situation on the labour market and in the economy in general. A residence permit granted at a later date is subject to the provisions of Art. 84 (5) of the Aliens Act."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...orlaeufig.html
Yeah i am allowed to work and i have worked in two different domains and payed all as every citizen does. I even have a written permission to work which i give to employers in case of doubt
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Old 20.06.2018, 21:30
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

Permit F is "vorläufige Aufnahme" (temporary admittance) for asylum seekers.

Is that the permit you have?
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Old 20.06.2018, 22:05
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

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Permit F is "vorläufige Aufnahme" (temporary admittance) for asylum seekers.

Is that the permit you have?
Yes, I have had it for 6 years now. The SPOP (Service de la population) issues and renews it annually with no requirements.

I can work and travel (along with travel document) anywhere except UK, US and Canada. It is treated in the same way as a B (for refugees), the difference being I can not have a my wife or my children (if I had) come to join me, unless I work and can support them financially, which I agree with. For other refugees with B, this is not the case.

Second, I can't buy stuff like TVs via a payment plans, because 95% stores don't accept the F.

Of course the main difference is the obvious potential and prospect of being deported one day, should the situations in my home country normalize. Aside from those, it's pretty identical to the B type. The refugee office and administration even synonymize the two and make no distinction because we similar rights and privileges.

Though, there is another type of F permit given and usually called "F humanity" meaning it was given/granted based on humanitarian grounds, which is entirely different and has possibly the worst form of privileges/right of them all.
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Old 20.06.2018, 22:16
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

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Yes, I have had it for 6 years now. The SPOP (Service de la population) issues and renews it annually with no requirements.

I can work and travel (along with travel document) anywhere except UK, US and Canada. It is treated in the same way as a B (for refugees), the difference being I can not have a my wife or my children (if I had) come to join me, unless I work and can support them financially, which I agree with. For other refugees with B, this is not the case.

Second, I can't buy stuff like TVs via a payment plans, because 95% stores don't accept the F.

Of course the main difference is the obvious potential and prospect of being deported one day, should the situations in my home country normalize. Aside from those, it's pretty identical to the B type. The refugee office and administration even synonymize the two and make no distinction because we similar rights and privileges.

Though, there is another type of F permit given and usually called "F humanity" meaning it was given/granted based on humanitarian grounds, which is entirely different and has possibly the worst form of privileges/right of them all.
Yep, what we call the "political F"

The one the letter says: "You fulfill the refugee status" and further down "your demand for asylum has been rejected".
Horrible letter. Sorry you had to get that one. Still better than the "humanitarian F" as it's personal. You'll probably stay here for ever (if you want to, that is )
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Old 20.06.2018, 22:33
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

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...Talk to the HR people who are dealing with your hiring. They won’t lie to you.
They might not lie, but they might not be fully informed. I don't imagine there are many F permit holders with permission to work that are hired as contractors at UN agencies.

Maybe try contacting the Permanent Mission to explain in detail and see if they can help clarify?
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Old 21.06.2018, 14:53
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

One important question to ask is if you lose your F permit it could be very difficult to get a new one should the UN job not work out.
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Old 21.06.2018, 19:22
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Re: Are permit F holders required to pay full tax while working at the UN

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One important question to ask is if you lose your F permit it could be very difficult to get a new one should the UN job not work out.
Hmm nope. Far from it actually. It actually makes no sense tbh. You are getting employed and and paying a full income tax. You are not getting another country's citizenship. The change of permit for extra priviledges associated with the UN. I would assume it would help my case if I ever asked for a more permanent pemit like B since the more you work and pay taxes the likelyhood of getting a residence increases.

There is no UN citizenship. Once your contract is finished then you get your permit back
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