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Old 17.07.2018, 08:38
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Fighter Jets Switzerland

Why the F....ck does Switzerland need fighter jets?

https://www.bluewin.ch/de/digital/ne...en-125223.html
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Old 17.07.2018, 08:58
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Because they are cool!

Tom
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Old 17.07.2018, 09:02
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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Why the F....ck does Switzerland need fighter jets?

https://www.bluewin.ch/de/digital/ne...en-125223.html
To patrol the skies during office hours.
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Old 17.07.2018, 09:13
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Because we're (almost entirely) surrounded by an alliance where the two biggest military assets lie in the hands of Erdogan and Trump*..

*tiny hands, in that case
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Old 17.07.2018, 11:21
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Keyword : Deterrent. Look it up.
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Old 17.07.2018, 12:00
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Everybody would have them if they could afford them. Everybody would have neutrality if they could afford it.

For the meantime, others share and rely on NATO fighter jets. Which is sponsored mainly by the US. That is slowly changing, it is too expensive to watch out for other countries' backs and get a lot of flack for it, in return. Or ridiculous presidential floating balloons, lol.



Why the question?

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Old 17.07.2018, 12:05
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Don’t feed the troll.
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Old 17.07.2018, 12:08
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Don't worry there only available "Part Time"....
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Old 17.07.2018, 12:10
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Part time? Of course, nobody dares to mess with them, they actually can be present only part time. What was the joke again?

The off hours are covered by NATO jets, so yanks.
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Old 17.07.2018, 13:08
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

Never move to Sion, or the vicinity thereof. Ear-splitting noise of take-offs and landings by those who are keeping us protected
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Old 17.07.2018, 13:48
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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Never move to Sion, or the vicinity thereof. Ear-splitting noise of take-offs and landings by those who are keeping us protected
"The sound of freedom"
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Old 17.07.2018, 14:50
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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Keyword : Deterrent. Look it up.
Deterrent? For whom? The Pope's Swiss Guard is more of a deterrent than the swiss fighter jets.

Other than showing off the jets would be pretty much useless in a real conflict. In Switzerland a fighter jet is like an elephant in a rabbit cage - the country is too small for operating supersonic jets. And it's not like the swiss are likely to participate in some far off conflict in a far off country.

The problem is the government has the money for the jets so they think it's a good idea to go buy some (and line some pockets as well in the process). But if they really wanted to consider defence seriously they should invest in some other alternatives - mobile AA-systems, helicopters, lightweight ground support aircraft, drones, etc. If I were swiss I would feel hard done if the government purchases new jets

And if being cool is what is as stake, why not develop some kind of space programme with the money?
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Old 17.07.2018, 15:18
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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Deterrent? For whom? The Pope's Swiss Guard is more of a deterrent than the swiss fighter jets.

Other than showing off the jets would be pretty much useless in a real conflict. In Switzerland a fighter jet is like an elephant in a rabbit cage - the country is too small for operating supersonic jets. And it's not like the swiss are likely to participate in some far off conflict in a far off country.
I guess you're aware that in any future conflict, Switzerland - if it is forced to become involved - wouldn't fight alone.

Lets assume that Putin, Erdogan and Trump carve up Europe. Or are trying to. Putin and Erdogan definitely have this on their agenda, and Trump in all his crazyness probably would love to join in.

So we'd suddenly be pinned vs. some rather large armies, who might not yet be able to touch Switzerland, but bombing runs are definitely on the menu. Now together with the French, Italian, Spanish airforce (the German one is even more of a joke, so I wouldn't consider them..) that might be just enough to keep some partial air superiority in a defense war vs. Russia/Turkey, or to keep some bombing runs from the US off (unless the UK joins on the Axis of evil, which is entirely possible) - all while Europe would be building up their armies in a rush, to counter the Russian tanks sweeping through Poland. Or to actually get another bigger nation to join them, maybe that one eager to reclaim some stolen land in Siberia, maybe?

If you're fighting alone, true, some 20-30 fighters won't make a difference. But in war on bigger alliances, everyone brings some small chips, they suddenly become something useful.


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The problem is the government has the money for the jets so they think it's a good idea to go buy some (and line some pockets as well in the process). But if they really wanted to consider defence seriously they should invest in some other alternatives - mobile AA-systems, helicopters, lightweight ground support aircraft, drones, etc. If I were swiss I would feel hard done if the government purchases new jets
Switzerland is using AA systems, and drones. Fighter jets are an extension of that, and also used in peace time in case some civil airplane goes dark, and all that.
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And if being cool is what is as stake, why not develop some kind of space programme with the money?
Switzerland is invested into ESA, so that's already happening. And money for space missions is always better than for military.
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Old 17.07.2018, 15:34
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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But in war on bigger alliances, everyone brings some small chips, they suddenly become something useful.
Except that Switzerland is not part of any alliance and it's not that clear that it would take part in one, should any of non-european threat come up towards Europe. The philosophy of the swiss army is to train for national defence and armed neutrality, which kind of prevents it from doing what you suggested.

Now, the scenario you mentioned makes sense, and plenty of other European countries do follow it (see Denmark, Holland, etc). But the Swiss like to be different - and in this case I think they would rather make a deal with the Putin/Erdogan/Trump/Kim-Jon-Ung of the day rather than go and fight it on some other country's soil.

Which renders fighter jets useless.
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Old 17.07.2018, 15:47
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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they would rather make a deal with the Putin/Erdogan/Trump/Kim-Jon-Ung of the day
LMFAO. Just LMFAO.
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Old 17.07.2018, 15:57
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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Except that Switzerland is not part of any alliance and it's not that clear that it would take part in one, should any of non-european threat come up towards Europe. The philosophy of the swiss army is to train for national defence and armed neutrality, which kind of prevents it from doing what you suggested.

Now, the scenario you mentioned makes sense, and plenty of other European countries do follow it (see Denmark, Holland, etc). But the Swiss like to be different - and in this case I think they would rather make a deal with the Putin/Erdogan/Trump/Kim-Jon-Ung of the day rather than go and fight it on some other country's soil.

Which renders fighter jets useless.
"Armed neutrality" requires arms and having some fighter jets is an extension of that.

No arms means there is far less incentive for a potential aggressor to "do a deal".
Easier just to walk in and take because there is nothing to deter that.

History shows this, time and time again
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Old 17.07.2018, 16:06
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

There are other reasons. Highly qualified job positions on a domestic job market, I know it may sound ridiculous, but neutrality comes with really good jobs that stay home/train home/etc.etc. These jets come with spare parts, technicians, logistics, local entourage and staff. Like movie stars. There isn't just a price tag but the funding gets spent on local people, too.
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Old 17.07.2018, 16:34
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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There are other reasons. Highly qualified job positions on a domestic job market, I know it may sound ridiculous, but neutrality comes with really good jobs that stay home/train home/etc.etc. These jets come with spare parts, technicians, logistics, local entourage and staff. Like movie stars. There isn't just a price tag but the funding gets spent on local people, too.
Jet jockeys buy Breitlings.
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Old 17.07.2018, 17:45
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

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"Armed neutrality" requires arms and having some fighter jets is an extension of that.

No arms means there is far less incentive for a potential aggressor to "do a deal".
Easier just to walk in and take because there is nothing to deter that.

History shows this, time and time again
I don't dispute that at all, that was not my point. I just don't think for Switzerland jets are the best arms to spend the money on in this age. Maybe 30-40 years ago, even 20 years ago it was a stretch. Today... meh.

And don't get me wrong, I'm one of those that's gets first in line to watch any of those jets, they are amazing sights to see. But I just don't see them being useful for Switzerland, not as useful as other arms can be.

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There are other reasons. Highly qualified job positions on a domestic job market
Highly qualified jobs in what is still technology at least a generation old? Yes, put the defence money to build highly qualified local jobs - but in things that actually will be useful and more modern. There are plenty of things where modernisation would be more effective (pilotless drones, sensor technology, electronic warefare, etc). A lot of today's military equipment is behind the technology that is available in the civilian sector. Switzerland has a lot of tradition in innovation, why go buy someone's 20-year old technology instead?
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Old 17.07.2018, 17:56
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Re: Fighter Jets Switzerland

And of course this parasite Parmelin etc gets his kick backs from the defence industry. He does not do it out of love for Switzerland!
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