alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary - Page 2

Dandy · #21 23.10.2018, 11:30

Poverty calculator:

https://statistik.zh.ch/internet/jus...ves/armut.html

bigblue2 · #22 23.10.2018, 11:34

	Quote:	MsWorWoo
	For a single person with no dependents the poverty line is 2.2k, for a couple with 2 children it is 4.05k, therefore, 4k as a single person is not low, for many people, that supports a family. It might not be in a high tax bracket, but it is not a low income.

<yawn> I seem to recall you getting a bee in your bonnet about this kind of thing before

MsWorWoo · #23 23.10.2018, 12:10

	Quote:	bigblue2
	<yawn> I seem to recall you getting a bee in your bonnet about this kind of thing before

Probably the same bee.

MsWorWoo · #24 23.10.2018, 12:23

	Quote:	Dandy
	Poverty calculator: https://statistik.zh.ch/internet/jus...ves/armut.html

Just used that, with the maximum amount of rent allowed and ir says 4k is not entitled to social help. “ Sie haben laut Ihren Angaben kein Anrecht auf Sozialhilfe. Ihr Einkommen liegt 1664 Franken über der Sozialhilfegrenze. Dieses Resultat erfolgt ohne Gewähr.”

Dandy · #25 23.10.2018, 13:09

I got a different result:

Budget

Budget für 3 Person(en) in einem 3 Personen-Haushalt
Grundbedarf für den Lebensunterhalt Fr. 1834
Wohnkosten (Miete inkl. Nebenkosten) Fr. 1400
Gesundheitskosten Fr. 1000
Erwerbsunkosten Fr. 650
Kosten für Kinderbetreuung Fr. 0
Total anrechenbarer Lebensbedarf Fr. 4884
Erwerbseinkommen Fr. -4000
Einkommen aus Sozialversicherungen und Bedarfsleistungen Fr. 0
Weitere Einkommen Fr. 0
Sozialhilfe Fr. 884
Laut den von Ihnen gemachten Angaben haben Sie zusammen mit Ihren Angehörigen Anrecht auf Sozialhilfe in der Höhe von 884 Franken pro Monat. Dieses Resultat ist ohne Gewähr. Den wirklichen Betrag, der Ihnen zusteht, kann nur der Sozialdienst Ihrer Gemeinde berechnen. Je nach dem kommen noch situationsbedingte Leistungen, ein Einkommensfreibetrag oder eine Integrationszulage hinzu. Der Grundbedarf von Personen, die nicht mit der Sozialbehörde kooperieren und ihre Verpflichtungen nicht einhalten, kann um bis zu 30% gekürzt werden.

st2lemans · #26 23.10.2018, 13:24

Low income is NOT the same thing as poverty.

Tom

Dandy · #27 23.10.2018, 13:25

....Sorry MsWorWoo is right, if you calculate it for a single person you are not entitled to social help

MsWorWoo · #28 23.10.2018, 14:16

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Indeed, with 10k to start, and 6k to write off, taxable income is then only 4k. The ex-wife of course has 6k of income to pay taxes on. Tom

	Quote:	Dandy
	I got a different result: Budget Budget für 3 Person(en) in einem 3 Personen-Haushalt Grundbedarf für den Lebensunterhalt Fr. 1834 Wohnkosten (Miete inkl. Nebenkosten) Fr. 1400 Gesundheitskosten Fr. 1000 Erwerbsunkosten Fr. 650 Kosten für Kinderbetreuung Fr. 0 Total anrechenbarer Lebensbedarf Fr. 4884 Erwerbseinkommen Fr. -4000 Einkommen aus Sozialversicherungen und Bedarfsleistungen Fr. 0 Weitere Einkommen Fr. 0 Sozialhilfe Fr. 884 Laut den von Ihnen gemachten Angaben haben Sie zusammen mit Ihren Angehörigen Anrecht auf Sozialhilfe in der Höhe von 884 Franken pro Monat. Dieses Resultat ist ohne Gewähr. Den wirklichen Betrag, der Ihnen zusteht, kann nur der Sozialdienst Ihrer Gemeinde berechnen. Je nach dem kommen noch situationsbedingte Leistungen, ein Einkommensfreibetrag oder eine Integrationszulage hinzu. Der Grundbedarf von Personen, die nicht mit der Sozialbehörde kooperieren und ihre Verpflichtungen nicht einhalten, kann um bis zu 30% gekürzt werden.

You are budgeting 4k on three people, either it’s 10k on three people or 4k on a single person, as the 4k was what was calculated he had left after paid out to the other two people. As it says just under 5k is OK of three then 10k is fine for three, as it says just over 2k is fine for one then 4k (after alimony and child support) is fine for one.
Ergo, his wages as income are not low, his taxable/disposable income after he paid out alimony and child support are not low.

st2lemans · #29 23.10.2018, 14:25

	Quote:	MsWorWoo
	his wages as income are not low, his taxable/disposable income after he paid out alimony and child support are not low.

What do you define as low then?

4k for one person is even low by Ticino standards.

4k/month is in the bottom 10% of salaries in the whole of Switzerland, how is that NOT low?

Tom

MsWorWoo · #30 23.10.2018, 23:20

	Quote:	st2lemans
	What do you define as low then? 4k for one person is even low by Ticino standards. 4k/month is in the bottom 10% of salaries in the whole of Switzerland, how is that NOT low? Tom

I would define low as needing social welfare.

Logily · #31 02.10.2020, 18:19

Hi Mindset: If you can, please do the calculation below similar to NIK's with the following caveats:

20K CHF 'NET" income per month (2x what Nik is making)
Wife is the Working Spouse - Male Spouse is retired
Wife to stay in house with 2 kids and male spouse to move out
Male SPouse apartment cost to be ~4000 CHF/mo

Many thanks

	Quote:	Mindset
	Hi Nik Assuming, you will move out of the apartment, the amount you will have to pay to your child will be a sum of so-called Barunterhalt (direct maintenance) and Betreuungsunterhalt (existence minimum for his mother, for as long as she is not able to work – that legally belongs to the child support, not spouse alimony): 1. Rent of an apartment your future ex and your kid are living in – 3,000 CHF 2. 3rd party liability insurance – ca. 30 CHF / month 3. Communication (standard amount of 120 CHF/month) 4. Medical insurance for both of them – 120 CHF for the child and 350 CHF mother 5. Basic amount (Grundbetrag) of 400 CHF for the child 6. Basic amount for mother 1350 CHF 7. If applicable – extra medical costs Total: ca. 5,400 CHF Your cost of living will be calculated more or less as following: 1. Rent – ca. 1,500 CHF or an actual amount 2. 3rd party liability insurance – ca. 30 CHF / month 3. Communication (standard amount of 120 CHF/month) 4. Medical insurance – ca. 350 CHF / month 5. Basic amount for the single person 1200 CHF 6. Transportation to work (monthly abo) – let’s assume 200 CHF 7. Lunches at work @ 15 CHF / day = ca. 315 CHF / Month Total: ca. 3,715 CHF Both amounts will be subtracted from the income. In case of scenario with 10 k CHF monthly income, that will leave the margin of ca. 880 CHF, which will be split: your ex and your child will get ca. 2/3 of that. So in total you will have to pay around 6 k CHF per month. Your ex will be expected to start working 50% as of the start of mandatory schooling, then 80% as of secondary school and 100% as of the age of 16 of your child (new Federal Court ruling 5A_384/2018) - that will reduce the Betreuungsunterhalt part of the child maintenance proportionally. So you were right assuming that you will pay 60% of the income for the maintenance, the difference is that most of that will belong to the child support formally.