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Old 21.10.2018, 22:06
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alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

hi all

Im new to switzerland (almost 1 year in the country). I want to get divorse from my wife and I want to get some guidance alimony numbers so I can budget for the post divorse day.

so
simplistic case-> 10k net per month. 1 kid(less than 2 years old), wife is not working. How much should I budget percentage/absolute number wise for my self,kid and ex?

less simple case-> does the rent amount been taken into account( we currently live in the same house (close to 3k months inc bills) ie does the alimony calculated after subtracting the ~3k rent from the 10k salary and then split to the 3(myself,ex,kid) of us?

Broadly speaking, I've heard I should expect to receive something like 40% of the 10k for my self, 40% goes for the wife, 20% goes for the kid(at least till he starts school), I will of course go for a lawyer when I have the time and find an english speaking adviser as well but for the time being I would appreciate some ball park figure so I will know what to roughly expect going forward.

Many thanks for reading.
Nik
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Old 21.10.2018, 23:32
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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hi all

Im new to switzerland (almost 1 year in the country). I want to get divorse from my wife and I want to get some guidance alimony numbers so I can budget for the post divorse day.

so
simplistic case-> 10k net per month. 1 kid(less than 2 years old), wife is not working. How much should I budget percentage/absolute number wise for my self,kid and ex?

less simple case-> does the rent amount been taken into account( we currently live in the same house (close to 3k months inc bills) ie does the alimony calculated after subtracting the ~3k rent from the 10k salary and then split to the 3(myself,ex,kid) of us?

Broadly speaking, I've heard I should expect to receive something like 40% of the 10k for my self, 40% goes for the wife, 20% goes for the kid(at least till he starts school), I will of course go for a lawyer when I have the time and find an english speaking adviser as well but for the time being I would appreciate some ball park figure so I will know what to roughly expect going forward.

Many thanks for reading.
Nik





Sounds a bit like the child has upset your apple cart and now you want out....think maybe how your child will think about both of you later on.


You thought about buckling down and having some counseling, your salary is more than enough for all of you to have a comfortable life style
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Old 22.10.2018, 01:09
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

Maybe there's some advice to be had from binational.ch.
http://www.binational.ch/en/?Separation_and_divorce

or here:
https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-and-mai...contributions/
There, scroll right down to click on more information. It takes you to the current regulations, however not in English, so if you don't read a local language, you'd have to google translate or use deepl or similar.
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Old 22.10.2018, 10:04
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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Sounds a bit like the child has upset your apple cart and now you want out....think maybe how your child will think about both of you later on.


You thought about buckling down and having some counseling, your salary is more than enough for all of you to have a comfortable life style
Your assumption that the child has caused the divorce is patronising beyond belief.

The OP isn't complaining about anything.. just asking for ballpark figures.

Think how the child might think about them if they stayed together in a terrible relationship.

Have you thought about buckling down and answering questions instead of offering unasked for advice ?

The OP doesn't mention a salary just a hypothetical sum to get simple % values.
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Old 22.10.2018, 15:49
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

Hi Nik

Assuming, you will move out of the apartment, the amount you will have to pay to your child will be a sum of so-called Barunterhalt (direct maintenance) and Betreuungsunterhalt (existence minimum for his mother, for as long as she is not able to work – that legally belongs to the child support, not spouse alimony):

1. Rent of an apartment your future ex and your kid are living in – 3,000 CHF
2. 3rd party liability insurance – ca. 30 CHF / month
3. Communication (standard amount of 120 CHF/month)
4. Medical insurance for both of them – 120 CHF for the child and 350 CHF mother
5. Basic amount (Grundbetrag) of 400 CHF for the child
6. Basic amount for mother 1350 CHF
7. If applicable – extra medical costs

Total: ca. 5,400 CHF

Your cost of living will be calculated more or less as following:
1. Rent – ca. 1,500 CHF or an actual amount
2. 3rd party liability insurance – ca. 30 CHF / month
3. Communication (standard amount of 120 CHF/month)
4. Medical insurance – ca. 350 CHF / month
5. Basic amount for the single person 1200 CHF
6. Transportation to work (monthly abo) – let’s assume 200 CHF
7. Lunches at work @ 15 CHF / day = ca. 315 CHF / Month

Total: ca. 3,715 CHF

Both amounts will be subtracted from the income. In case of scenario with 10 k CHF monthly income, that will leave the margin of ca. 880 CHF, which will be split: your ex and your child will get ca. 2/3 of that. So in total you will have to pay around 6 k CHF per month.

Your ex will be expected to start working 50% as of the start of mandatory schooling, then 80% as of secondary school and 100% as of the age of 16 of your child (new Federal Court ruling 5A_384/2018) - that will reduce the Betreuungsunterhalt part of the child maintenance proportionally.

So you were right assuming that you will pay 60% of the income for the maintenance, the difference is that most of that will belong to the child support formally.
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Old 22.10.2018, 16:09
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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In case of scenario with 10 k CHF monthly income, that will leave the margin of ca. 880 CHF.
And taxes, obligatory deductions?

Tom
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Old 22.10.2018, 16:26
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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And taxes, obligatory deductions?

Tom
OP was mentioning 10 k net, so deductions should be in.
Good point on taxes, though given relatively modest amounts for both parties (Mother + Child - single parent tariff, Father - low income), that should not change the calculation dramatically.
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Old 22.10.2018, 17:29
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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OP was mentioning 10 k net, so deductions should be in.
Good point on taxes, though given relatively modest amounts for both parties (Mother + Child - single parent tariff, Father - low income), that should not change the calculation dramatically.
I thought that everybody knew that the 120k chf being the EF minimum salary was a joke. 10k a month is NOT a low income.
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Old 22.10.2018, 17:32
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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I thought that everybody knew that the 120k chf being the EF minimum salary was a joke. 10k a month is NOT a low income.
it is when your paying 2 rents and once of those is 3k a month!!
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Old 22.10.2018, 17:37
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

Seems a bit odd the OP says they're in Switzerland, but give their location as London. If already moved to another country could make any divorce settlement more complicated.
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Old 22.10.2018, 17:38
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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it is when your paying 2 rents and once of those is 3k a month!!
High outgoings do not mean that you have a low income, just that money is tight. 10k is high income, even the Swiss Tax guys agree on that. Disposable income is different.
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Old 22.10.2018, 18:07
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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I thought that everybody knew that the 120k chf being the EF minimum salary was a joke. 10k a month is NOT a low income.
10k-6k = 4k, so yes a low income.

Tom
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Old 22.10.2018, 20:36
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I thought that everybody knew that the 120k chf being the EF minimum salary was a joke. 10k a month is NOT a low income.
The "relatively modest amounts" that Mindset referred to are the taxes payable (modest because there are some sizeable offsets and deductions), not the income.

ETA: And as noted above, the father's net income after all the payments is indeed low.
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Old 22.10.2018, 21:03
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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ETA: And as noted above, the father's net income after all the payments is indeed low.
Indeed, with 10k to start, and 6k to write off, taxable income is then only 4k.

The ex-wife of course has 6k of income to pay taxes on.

Tom
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Old 22.10.2018, 22:21
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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10k-6k = 4k, so yes a low income.

Tom
Disposable income =/= income
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Old 22.10.2018, 23:03
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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Indeed, with 10k to start, and 6k to write off, taxable income is then only 4k.

The ex-wife of course has 6k of income to pay taxes on.

Tom
By “low income” I indeed meant the taxable income – all the child support and spouse alimonies are deductible (at least for canton Zürich). The precise tax burden for both parties is hard to estimate since too many variables of the fiscal equation are unknown. It is, however, possible, that the father will probably pay fewer taxes than mother will.

Another point to keep in mind is that taxes are not included in the so-called “Notbedarf” (survival minimum) by the calculation. Even if they were, that would increase father’s cost of living by a couple of hundreds CHF per month. However, since the survival minimum of the debtor is untouchable according to the law (i.e. there’s a certain amount the debtor needs to survive, and he remains entitled to that no matter what), the father thus would end up being entitled to the same amount in the ballpark of 4,000 CHF.

In the present case, both parties would be expected to cover their taxes from their share or income-less-costs overage. The father pays fewer taxes and gets 1/3 of the surplus; mother and child get 2/3 but have a higher tax burden.

BTW, Justice department of Canton Zürich made available a very detailed excel-tool for alimony calculation (in German):
Excel file
Manual
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Old 22.10.2018, 23:05
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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Disposable income =/= income
We aren't talking about disposable income.

His income will be reduced by what he pays in alimony and child support, which IS income for his ex, and a reduction of his taxable income.

He will only pay taxes on the 4k, not the 10k. He is in exactly the same financial condition as a single person earning 4k who is single and not paying alimony or child support, i.e. low income.

Tom
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Old 22.10.2018, 23:43
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

Given that the income tax is progressive in Switzerland, is it more tax efficient to divorce than to stay married in this case of alimony ? :-)

Let me think:
- I can declare "a partner" for my 2nd pillar inheritance/pension. Check.
- My SO accrues years of 1st pillar because of children. Check.

And then one could remarry when kids leave the nest :-)
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Old 23.10.2018, 08:01
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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We aren't talking about disposable income.

His income will be reduced by what he pays in alimony and child support, which IS income for his ex, and a reduction of his taxable income.

He will only pay taxes on the 4k, not the 10k. He is in exactly the same financial condition as a single person earning 4k who is single and not paying alimony or child support, i.e. low income.

Tom
For a single person with no dependents the poverty line is 2.2k, for a couple with 2 children it is 4.05k, therefore, 4k as a single person is not low, for many people, that supports a family. It might not be in a high tax bracket, but it is not a low income.
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Old 23.10.2018, 08:34
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Re: alimony- guidance figure/percent of salary

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For a single person with no dependents the poverty line is 2.2k, for a couple with 2 children it is 4.05k, therefore, 4k as a single person is not low, for many people, that supports a family. It might not be in a high tax bracket, but it is not a low income.
It is for Switzerland, that's what a cashier at Migros earns.

Tom
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