Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10.12.2018, 08:44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Last year I explored the topic of "Security at the Zurich Christmas market"

Today top headline is "Lack of Security at the Christmas market"
https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich...mung--24066837

They say that «Terror barriers destroy the Christmas spirit» but promise to increase security next year.

However in my video you can see that every jewelry store in Zurich has Barriers and the spirit is very profitable. Security barriers come in many forms as you can see in the video.





UPDATE:

but Switzerland is neutral and will never have a problem with terrorism.
FACT: Terrorists do not care if you are a woman, child or whatever nationality. They want to send a message and that is why they attack "mass events".

Switzerland has such low number is terrorists under surveillance compare to France, Germany etc...
FACT: Switzerland has open borders and any person with ill intent can reach Zurich in a couple of hours.

Switzerland is neutral so terrorists do not have a reason to attack.
FACT: Switzerland is a very large producer of weapons uses in international conflicts. Switzerland is part of many international organizations which have been the focus of controversy.

Security measures would ruin the Christmas feeling.
FACT: Swiss security officials are responsible to ensure security for all regardless of their opinion (at public events).

Switzerland is so safe that our presidents walk around without security:
FACT: Swiss security is very sophisticated. Switzerland employs a very large number of security personnel in uniform, undercover, civilian, military, kantonal, local, federal and international... All officials and officials buildings receive security protection.

Dont be paranoid. Dying in a terror related incident at the christmas market is extremely low. Switzerland will never be attacked.
FACT: the same goes for dying in a terror related air incident. But security is extreme at all airports to the extent that air travelers must add a few extra hours on top of the flight time... also switzerland being invaded is extremely unlikely given that it is neutral ... but that does not keep the army from expanding and updating their tactics equipment and strategies every year.

PS: WATER, the most important element to human life, is banned on aircraft due to terror related fears.
so if we ban water I think we can install some beautiful swiss made security barriers next to the street to protect the drunk masses attending whatever event in public squares.

most importantly everybody must realize that this has nothing to do with Switzerland other than the fact that it is in Switzerland and swiss authorities must organize the appropriate security measures however this has to do with international norms international responsibilities and international events because if something were to happen this will be on international news and the consequences will be world-wide reaching.

Last edited by edzoom; 10.12.2018 at 11:08.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank edzoom for this useful post:
The following 10 users groan at edzoom for this post:
  #2  
Old 10.12.2018, 08:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,310
Groaned at 630 Times in 464 Posts
Thanked 15,106 Times in 5,911 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
Last year I explored the topic of "Security at the Zurich Christmas market"

Today top headline is Lack of Security at the Christmas market
https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich...mung--24066837

They say that «Terror barriers destroy the Christmas spirit»

However in my video you can see that every jewelry store in Zurich has Barriers and the spirit is very profitable.
I'm happy that the stopped and checked you for filming jewelery stores, it shows they are serious about doing their job.

And you don't say in your post... why are security barriers at the Zurich Christmas market needed? When I was there a few weeks ago I saw police waiting outside to keep order.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 10.12.2018, 08:59
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 12,930
Groaned at 111 Times in 103 Posts
Thanked 22,944 Times in 8,852 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

To be fair, there are dozens of Christmas markets in the UK, Germany and France also without barriers and they actually have a credible terrorist threat and a history of past attacks.

The reason there are barriers outside jewellery stores in Zurich is to prevent smash and grab style robberies of high end products. Yes, the stuff is overpriced at the Christmas market but hardly worth ramming a wooden shack to get at it.


[EDIT: written before original post was massively edited and embellished ]

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 10.12.2018 at 12:29.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:03
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

my video shows how easily someone can drive into the crowd intentionally or by accident. Note that many 90 year olds still drive in switzerland and maybe you have noticed the deadlines where old drivers confuse the acceleration with the brake pedal. or due to a medical emergency...

Security barriers are needed because it is the latest trend in terror attacks and Zurich is a full of foreigners. Terrorists dont attack swiss farmers they attack masses of international people so that their message spreads worldwide.

However the police officer in my video clarified it perfectly: Its politics. maybe they even want something to happen because it would automatically give them a lot of funding and power following an incident...

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank edzoom for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at edzoom for this post:
  #5  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:04
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,998
Groaned at 632 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 9,650 Times in 3,957 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

It’s very simple, Switzerland is a neutral country that has rejected the folly of multiculturalism. This means Switzerland is a country that doesn’t, and unlikely ever will have, a problem with Islamic Terrisism. Therefore no need for barriers around the Christmas Market.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

terrorists attack international places and crowds not swiss or switzerland.
This is why there is security at every large event and organization in Switzerland.
Switzerland is part of the capitalist western world it is not an island in the pacific.
Additionally many military technologies are made in neutral switzerland for export so there is a valid reason for a terror (payback/revenge) attack in Switzerland...





Quote:
View Post
It’s very simple, Switzerland is a neutral country that has rejected the folly of multiculturalism. This means Switzerland is a country that doesn’t, and unlikely ever will have, a problem with Islamic Terrisism. Therefore no need for barriers around the Christmas Market.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:10
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,048
Groaned at 277 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 20,550 Times in 7,480 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
And you don't say in your post... why are security barriers at the Zurich Christmas market needed? When I was there a few weeks ago I saw police waiting outside to keep order.


We are not talking about the security barriers you find at concerts checking peoples bags... we talk about the concrete blocks known as "Merkel Lego" in Germany:





A couple of cops standing around wont stop a truck.


Bottom line:
a) Switzerland never had a Muslim extremist attack
b) Switzerland has not been part of the countries that fought IS, so it was never really on the target list for extremists either...
c) a truck attack makes sense in big and wide squares where a suicide attacker can drive a large vehicle with speed into a group of victims. Zurich center and the places where the market is on is far from ideal for that...


Edzoom once again picked the least newsworthy filler story on 20min, made an even less relevant video on it, did not understand the differences between the barriers that protect people and the ones that protect the wealth of a jeweler... and promotes his crap content on here.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:11
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,998
Groaned at 632 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 9,650 Times in 3,957 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
terrorists attack international places and crowds not swiss or switzerland.
This is why there is security at every large event and organization in Switzerland.
Switzerland is part of the capitalist western world it is not an island in the pacific.
Additionally many military technologies are made in neutral switzerland for export so there is a valid reason for a terror (payback) attack in Switzerland...
Number of terrorist attacks in Switzerland - 0.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nyon
Posts: 2,700
Groaned at 71 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 3,273 Times in 1,297 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Because of the lack of CCTV and strict privacy rules, the terroristas wouldn't get enough publicity in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank John_H for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,680
Groaned at 77 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 6,989 Times in 3,283 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
my video shows how ...
...you're using this forum to tout for views yet again.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
Number of terrorist attacks in Switzerland - 0.
there are many physical ties between terrorism and switzerland.


Syria-bound Swiss man held in Bulgaria on terror charges - The Local
https://www.thelocal.ch/.../syria-bo...terror-charges
Sep 13, 2018 - A heavily-armed Swiss man has been detained at Bulgaria's eastern border with Turkey and charged with terrorism after allegedly planning to go to Syria, ... ILO postpones decision on cutting ties to tobacco industry again ...

The changing face of jihadism in Switzerland - The Local
https://www.thelocal.ch/20170628/swi...ert-links-isis
Jun 28, 2017 - A Swiss terror expert has warned that the jihadist threat is evolving, with ... key players in Swiss jihadism are native, and they have connections ...


Suspected terrorist arrested in Switzerland - SWI swissinfo.ch
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/suspect...erland/5480270
Oct 2, 2006 - The suspected terrorist arrested in Switzerland is currently in a ... 2001: Switzerland sets up a task force to probe any Swiss ties to the ..
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at edzoom for this post:
  #12  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:18
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,048
Groaned at 277 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 20,550 Times in 7,480 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland is a neutral country that has rejected the folly of multiculturalism.
In the top ten of cities with the highest percentage of foreign born residents are five in Switzerland. According to the sort of publication you like are Swiss cities "foreigner dominated", because multicultural doesn't cut it these days:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...europe-8133284
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:18
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,998
Groaned at 632 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 9,650 Times in 3,957 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
there are many physical ties between terrorism and switzerland.


Syria-bound Swiss man held in Bulgaria on terror charges - The Local
https://www.thelocal.ch/.../syria-bo...terror-charges
Sep 13, 2018 - A heavily-armed Swiss man has been detained at Bulgaria's eastern border with Turkey and charged with terrorism after allegedly planning to go to Syria, ... ILO postpones decision on cutting ties to tobacco industry again ...

The changing face of jihadism in Switzerland - The Local
https://www.thelocal.ch/20170628/swi...ert-links-isis
Jun 28, 2017 - A Swiss terror expert has warned that the jihadist threat is evolving, with ... key players in Swiss jihadism are native, and they have connections ...


Suspected terrorist arrested in Switzerland - SWI swissinfo.ch
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/suspect...erland/5480270
Oct 2, 2006 - The suspected terrorist arrested in Switzerland is currently in a ... 2001: Switzerland sets up a task force to probe any Swiss ties to the ..
That’s nothing, 27,000 under surveillance in the UK, thousands in France and Germany.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:25
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,048
Groaned at 277 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 20,550 Times in 7,480 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
there are many physical ties between terrorism and switzerland.


Syria-bound Swiss man held in Bulgaria on terror charges - The Local
https://www.thelocal.ch/.../syria-bo...terror-charges
Sep 13, 2018 - A heavily-armed Swiss man has been detained at Bulgaria's eastern border with Turkey and charged with terrorism after allegedly planning to go to Syria, ... ILO postpones decision on cutting ties to tobacco industry again ...

The changing face of jihadism in Switzerland - The Local
https://www.thelocal.ch/20170628/swi...ert-links-isis
Jun 28, 2017 - A Swiss terror expert has warned that the jihadist threat is evolving, with ... key players in Swiss jihadism are native, and they have connections ...


Suspected terrorist arrested in Switzerland - SWI swissinfo.ch
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/suspect...erland/5480270
Oct 2, 2006 - The suspected terrorist arrested in Switzerland is currently in a ... 2001: Switzerland sets up a task force to probe any Swiss ties to the ..
Case 1: Bulgarian police stopped a Swiss citizen who illegally moved weapons in his car and had the goal to "defend civilians" in Idlib, Syria. Clearly crazy, but not a terror attack in Switzerland.

Case 2: Some "expert" warns that terror is a topic. Literally not a single piece of evidence that anything is happening in CH and the closing note of the article is "Nothing justifies alarmism".

Case 3: A guy was arrested for financing terror in Algeria, not Switzerland.

Bottom line: the worst actual terror attacks on Swiss soil were white guys with their free army rifles shooting people. While there is a theoretical threat has there in practice not been a single islamist attack.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,998
Groaned at 632 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 9,650 Times in 3,957 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
In the top ten of cities with the highest percentage of foreign born residents are five in Switzerland. According to the sort of publication you like are Swiss cities "foreigner dominated", because multicultural doesn't cut it these days:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...europe-8133284
Massive foreign population however zero shits given for which country you’re from. Come here and you do things the Swiss way, which is why it works so well.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:26
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Timbuktoo/Zürich
Posts: 7,226
Groaned at 1,269 Times in 687 Posts
Thanked 2,967 Times in 1,928 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
my video shows how easily someone can drive into the crowd intentionally or by accident. Note that many 90 year olds still drive in switzerland and maybe you have noticed the deadlines where old drivers confuse the acceleration with the brake pedal. or due to a medical emergency...

Security barriers are needed because it is the latest trend in terror attacks and Zurich is a full of foreigners. Terrorists dont attack swiss farmers they attack masses of international people so that their message spreads worldwide.

However the police officer in my video clarified it perfectly: Its politics. maybe they even want something to happen because it would automatically give them a lot of funding and power following an incident...

Pretty racist discriminatory naive fearful paranoid post if you ask me.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank omtatsat for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
That’s nothing, 27,000 under surveillance in the UK, thousands in France and Germany.
but the topic is Switzerland not another country.
AND since the countries you mention surround Switzerland they could also travel to the Zurich Christmas Market to kill some people since there is such a lack of security.
Additionally if you look at a percent I bet the % is very high in switzerland. But we will never know because such information is not available in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users groan at edzoom for this post:
  #18  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:32
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,044
Groaned at 291 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 8,652 Times in 4,370 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
but the topic is Switzerland not another country.
AND since the countries you mention surround Switzerland they could also travel to the Zurich Christmas Market to kill some people since there is such a lack of security.
Additionally if you look at a percent I bet the % is very high in switzerland. But we will never know because such information is not available in Switzerland.
Have you looked at the lack of security at a lot of other Christmas markets? In the surrounding countries?

Yes, they could and they could target the Hauptbahnhof or the airport of a high rise buidling or or or or or
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,310
Groaned at 630 Times in 464 Posts
Thanked 15,106 Times in 5,911 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

Quote:
View Post
my video shows how easily someone can drive into the crowd intentionally or by accident. Note that many 90 year olds still drive in switzerland and maybe you have noticed the deadlines where old drivers confuse the acceleration with the brake pedal. or due to a medical emergency...

Security barriers are needed because it is the latest trend in terror attacks and Zurich is a full of foreigners. Terrorists dont attack swiss farmers they attack masses of international people so that their message spreads worldwide.

However the police officer in my video clarified it perfectly: Its politics. maybe they even want something to happen because it would automatically give them a lot of funding and power following an incident...
So what exactly is your motivation, why are you crusading for this? Did you have an experience with terrorism inside Switzerland?

As has been pointed out CH is not a target of any real significance for terrorism due to a lack of involvement in international wars in the middle east, and while it could theoretically happen that an attack occurs, it is extremely unlikely.

As for the "government wants something to happen" spiel... now this is the paranoid sort of crap that harms your credibility. This is not a country of the scale and complexity of the USA where governments comprised of ultra rich and powerful people are entangled in multiple webs of dark politics with agencies behind agencies. The politics is comparatively (and refreshingly) simple and the governments comprised of relatively normal people.

Seems to me like you are trying to stir up some hysteria.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 10.12.2018, 09:35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 299
Groaned at 152 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 79 Posts
edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom edzoom
Re: Zurich Christmas market lack of Security

open up 20min.ch and read the top headline:
https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich...mung--24066837

it is the same topic that I covered last year and it is a very serious topic.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at edzoom for this post:
Reply

Tags
christmas market, security, zurich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zurich Christmas market: opinion? Karl Daily life 30 17.12.2015 18:12
Christmas market in or near Zurich / Baden harrypotterfan Daily life 24 15.12.2014 17:29
Bern: Artists Christmas market (with some of my cheese on the side) grumpygrapefruit Commercial events 4 06.12.2009 09:49
Zurich Christmas Market Intrepid Other/general 2 19.07.2009 22:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0