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  #21  
Old 03.01.2019, 02:06
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

This is actually wrong advise. After his criminal case my ex called the police when I had my daughter for a visit, they arrested me, they removed her from my arms crying and screaming and returned her to her father, it was VERY traumatic, I was at the police all night and later had to go to court where the judge said the whole charge was ridiculous.

I tried for custody while the process went on, they denied my request as there is no proof they should be moved from their home/school.

One child is over 12, told they have to adhere to the court order.

At the moment I do not owe child support, but he owes me a monthly pension, he is paying a very small % of this amount.

The court encouraged me to work illegally as well, I told them I was not turning down work. It is a "can't win" type of thing that.

I applied for a permit when I arrived, was still married and supported. I didn't do anything wrong there, not sure about your comment

I NEVER thought this could happen. I also apply for everything, even just tried for a job watching 2 kids a few hours a week, but alas you know I have no references, as my experience is with my own kids, not as a job.

I will try the number posted though, thanks for that.



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The police in Switzerland pretty much will only take children by force with the police if they are in actual, current, physical danger. It's not because you don't have a permit. The Swiss consider the police taking children to be traumatic to them and therefore not in their best interest.

If you are ever alone with your children, if you just don't return them to their father, they will not be taken from you by force. This will be especially true if your daughter tells everyone that she wants to be with you. And, since he has a history of abuse already, just throw in that he was hurting the children, too. Doesn't matter if you lie. File a Superprovisorische Massnahme as soon as you have your kids, saying you need emergency custody because your daughter is scared of him. Give lots of detail about how horrid and scary your ex is, and the court will award summarily, in a couple of days, against him without ever contacting him. Then he gets to play the waiting game until you go back to court. It's a rotten game to play, but truly it may be your only chance to get her back.

I'm not actually recommending it though, because it is immoral and may likely backfire in the long run. I wouldn't know though; it's the method my ex has used to this day with total success. The longer the children are with their father, the less of a relationship they will have with you. You will be forgotten and discarded. Their father can tell them whatever he wants about who you are, and you won't be there to defend yourself. Gaslighting and other subtle manipulations are the name of the game. The ephemeral memory of childhood works against you. And once your kids are over 12, then there really is absolutely nothing you can do if your kids don't want to see you. Even if your ex-husband has millions and you're on social welfare, you will be required to pay him, as both parents are considered financially responsible for the children. Your payments will just be added to your debt. (True for Bern, hopefully not for Vaud?)

Never, ever work black or tell anyone you work black. Both. You can be arrested for it. You can be denied the possibility of ever getting a permit. Just don't do it. As soon as his lawyer suggested that you could work black, you or your lawyer should have strongly, forcefully stamped that out as strictly impossible. The gall of suggesting you break the law! Black work is absolutely not acceptable. If you're caught working black you will only harm your case and lose you any sympathy, such as it is.

I fail to see why you moved to/stayed in Switzerland illegally. That really screwed things over for you in terms of seeking assistance. Apply for jobs as much as humanly possible. Don't just look for photography work. Apply for anything and everything. You need that B permit. But even if you have it, that doesn't mean it will help you see your kids, but at least you won't have to leave.

There is an organization in Bern called Infra Bern which employs jurists, lawyers, etc to provide legal information for women. You can get an appointment for free if you call. They do have English speakers.

Infra Bern
Zentrum5
Flurstrasse 26b
3014 Bern
031 311 17 95
Opening hours
Tue 6 pm–8 pm
Thu 9 am–11 am
Sat 11 am–1 pm

Keep records of every text, every email, everything from everyone. Don't communicate with your ex over the phone unless you record him and tell him you're recording. Your paper trail is all you have, weak though it is.

I hope your situation works out. I have found that the Swiss really hate to rock the boat, and so forcing your ex to change his behavior is unlikely. If the children don't seem physically or sexually abused, then too bad mom, just go away and stop making things difficult. As I was told, don't worry, when they're adults they'll come seek you out!

If I seem harsh and cynical, well, my ex took my kids this way, and even now with a Beiständin there is little help or improvement. I was destroyed but no one cares. I just get sympathetic noises thrown my way about how things are "sad." We have 50/50 legal custody but that just means I get information. In reality, I have no say. So, my cynicism is at peak levels.

You may want to read up on "erased parents."
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  #22  
Old 03.01.2019, 02:26
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

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This is actually wrong advise. After his criminal case my ex called the police when I had my daughter for a visit, they arrested me, they removed her from my arms crying and screaming and returned her to her father, it was VERY traumatic, I was at the police all night and later had to go to court where the judge said the whole charge was ridiculous.

I tried for custody while the process went on, they denied my request as there is no proof they should be moved from their home/school.

One child is over 12, told they have to adhere to the court order.

At the moment I do not owe child support, but he owes me a monthly pension, he is paying a very small % of this amount.

The court encouraged me to work illegally as well, I told them I was not turning down work. It is a "can't win" type of thing that.

I applied for a permit when I arrived, was still married and supported. I didn't do anything wrong there, not sure about your comment

I NEVER thought this could happen. I also apply for everything, even just tried for a job watching 2 kids a few hours a week, but alas you know I have no references, as my experience is with my own kids, not as a job.

I will try the number posted though, thanks for that.
Well, my ex and I had 50/50 custody for three years, and then while he had the children at his house, he refused to let them come to me. KESB told me the police won't go get the children if they're not in imminent danger. Maybe they were lying to me to blow me off. I have no idea.

My ex immediately filed a Superprovisorische Massnahme. I had to wait until the court date to determine when I would see them, which took three months to happen. My son was 11, my daughter 13. The court document states that because she is over 12, she will decide for herself when she sees me. My son was given a schedule to see me.

My ex has plenty of money. I am disabled and am on social welfare (IV application underway). I have to pay him children support, because the judge told me that both parents must pay regardless of their ability.

When I moved I had a B permit within a few weeks, so I just couldn't see why you didn't also if you moved here legally. I was required to report to the Gemeinde within 10 days of arrival and was issued my B-permit immediately thereafter.

Guess the French side is as much a different country as it seems. Black work here is so seriously frowned on I would be absolutely shocked if any authority recommended it. Any time I have so much as hinted at it, I have been immediately and strongly warned against it.

I did just pick up a temporary job cleaning holiday homes, no reference necessary. I wasn't even interviewed. I responded to a local Facebook group request. Those local Facebook groups have a wealth of information and opportunities. My work isn't black, but I have known people who've gotten black work that way.

I truly hope your situation works out better than mine has.
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  #23  
Old 03.01.2019, 02:39
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

I don't know about that side, just what I am told here.

After 12 they have a chance to say what they prefer but can't make up visit times I'm told.

I applied for the permit when I arrived, they are very behind here, then they needed more papers, then the divorce, then the proof he wa paying, my file is huge by now.

I guess with the black work is I can't be seen as "rejecting work" which I haven't been, end of the day I need it. So I was honest and his lawyer encouraged me in court to do more, which is crazy.

I'm sorry you went through a bad time too. Do get in touch if you want to chat. It's good you at least had 50/50. Some months I didn't see mine at all, now I get the min 2 visits. I didn't get birthdays or x-mas etc though. No holidays even though I have a court order to have one, if I take her for the court ordered holiday he could have ben arrested for kidnapping, again. Lovely

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Well, my ex and I had 50/50 custody for three years, and then while he had the children at his house, he refused to let them come to me. KESB told me the police won't go get the children if they're not in imminent danger. Maybe they were lying to me to blow me off. I have no idea.

My ex immediately filed a Superprovisorische Massnahme. I had to wait until the court date to determine when I would see them, which took three months to happen. My son was 11, my daughter 13. The court document states that because she is over 12, she will decide for herself when she sees me. My son was given a schedule to see me.

My ex has plenty of money. I am disabled and am on social welfare (IV application underway). I have to pay him children support, because the judge told me that both parents must pay regardless of their ability.

When I moved I had a B permit within a few weeks, so I just couldn't see why you didn't also if you moved here legally. I was required to report to the Gemeinde within 10 days of arrival and was issued my B-permit immediately thereafter.

Guess the French side is as much a different country as it seems. Black work here is so seriously frowned on I would be absolutely shocked if any authority recommended it. Any time I have so much as hinted at it, I have been immediately and strongly warned against it.

I did just pick up a temporary job cleaning holiday homes, no reference necessary. I wasn't even interviewed. I responded to a local Facebook group request. Those local Facebook groups have a wealth of information and opportunities. My work isn't black, but I have known people who've gotten black work that way.

I truly hope your situation works out better than mine has.
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  #24  
Old 03.01.2019, 02:50
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

That black-work thing is just a trap IMO.

As soon as you're caught (it's not an if, it's a when), you'd probably been deported.
After all, when the lawyer knows you do black work, it's just a call to the AWA and you're almost on a plane to the UK.
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  #25  
Old 03.01.2019, 02:55
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

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That black-work thing is just a trap IMO.

As soon as you're caught (it's not an if, it's a when), you'd probably been deported.
After all, when the lawyer knows you do black work, it's just a call to the AWA and you're almost on a plane to the UK.
odd then, I tried o register as self employed but they require a permit, but many EU work here sans permit for freelance work. so I don't know. I just know I was told not to reject work, I said I was not, admitted to some small jobs. Spoke how I can't work without a permit etc
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Old 03.01.2019, 09:10
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

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The swiss expect people to act normally, but if they don't? There is nothing in place it seems
I completely agree with you here! Switzerland works because people follow the rules. As soon as someone doesn't is when you see there are no consequences or remedies!

I'm sorry you are going through this mess. So you have no permit at all? What about an L job seekers permit?

Where in Vaud are you? I don't think I can help except that I know a very good family lawyer and I could offer you a hot beverage.

Hugs
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Old 03.01.2019, 10:01
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

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And, since he has a history of abuse already, just throw in that he was hurting the children, too. Doesn't matter if you lie.
Bloody focking awful advice, you don't cure one injustice by another one.
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Old 03.01.2019, 12:59
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

Tough one and sorry you're in this situation.
First off, learn French properly so you are fluent. You're not working now so have the time.

File a poursuite against him. Even if it takes time it will shake him and may force him to pay up. He can't get credit if it's registered.

Working in the black means not declaring it. Declare it, or work freelance. I know a Dutch lady who did this, similar situation to yours but no kids. And by freelance, can be anything from babysitting, to cleaning, to photography, whatever work can come your way.

Finally, when you stare at a brick wall long enough, it becomes impenetrable and you can't get past it. Think outside the box, look where his weak points are. And it's not true a court order to pay is unenforceable outside Switzerland. It is enforceable so go for it. The company may not want any bad publicity so may tell him to pay up or else.

Go everyday to the commune to ask about your permit until they issue it just to get rid of you. As an EU citizen you're allowed to live and work here.

Don't wallow about it being unfair, it is, make it unfair for him instead. Good luck with it all.
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Old 03.01.2019, 13:13
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

First of all, I am very sorry for your troubles. Sending you all the best wishes for a better year ahead.

How is your ex able to stay here? Does he have a permit? I've read through all of the comments and I've gathered he is not Swiss and his employer is in the US...does his employer require that his home location be in Switzerland? Did they arrange his permit here, and why did they not do it for you while you were married/first arrived?
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Old 03.01.2019, 14:27
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

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I completely agree with you here! Switzerland works because people follow the rules. As soon as someone doesn't is when you see there are no consequences or remedies!

I'm sorry you are going through this mess. So you have no permit at all? What about an L job seekers permit?

Where in Vaud are you? I don't think I can help except that I know a very good family lawyer and I could offer you a hot beverage.

Hugs
No permit but it is still pending so I'm not illegal.

I will Pm where I am exactly. The lawyers have no further suggestions

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First of all, I am very sorry for your troubles. Sending you all the best wishes for a better year ahead.

How is your ex able to stay here? Does he have a permit? I've read through all of the comments and I've gathered he is not Swiss and his employer is in the US...does his employer require that his home location be in Switzerland? Did they arrange his permit here, and why did they not do it for you while you were married/first arrived?
he forged his papers, I told the office, they don't care. He has no reason to be here, we could all move, maybe he just is waiting for me to be thrown out as then I can't fight for the kids
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  #31  
Old 03.01.2019, 14:45
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

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Tough one and sorry you're in this situation.
First off, learn French properly so you are fluent. You're not working now so have the time.

File a poursuite against him. Even if it takes time it will shake him and may force him to pay up. He can't get credit if it's registered.

Working in the black means not declaring it. Declare it, or work freelance. I know a Dutch lady who did this, similar situation to yours but no kids. And by freelance, can be anything from babysitting, to cleaning, to photography, whatever work can come your way.

Finally, when you stare at a brick wall long enough, it becomes impenetrable and you can't get past it. Think outside the box, look where his weak points are. And it's not true a court order to pay is unenforceable outside Switzerland. It is enforceable so go for it. The company may not want any bad publicity so may tell him to pay up or else.

Go everyday to the commune to ask about your permit until they issue it just to get rid of you. As an EU citizen you're allowed to live and work here.

Don't wallow about it being unfair, it is, make it unfair for him instead. Good luck with it all.

It's an office for the permits for the canton, not sure they want me every day, when I go they say they can't help. Someone rang from the inside, no payments and or job = no permit.

I know he even argued in court his fancy new pension, he fancy new special insurances were vital living costs. It's crazy.

Saying "learn french" is hard, I try, it's not easy for me. I'm better but not fluent, also I come up against the "no work experience" issues as well. Even for a babysitting gig, I have no work experience, I have only my own kids.

It's hard to feel positive
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  #32  
Old 03.01.2019, 16:21
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Re: When everything goes wrong, any advice or support?

I understand you very well, don't give up hope. Dig deep and fight your way through this. There is always a glimmer of hope, I promise.

I also agree that learning another language is very hard. In order to be professionally fluent both verbally and in writing, it takes some time and total dedication. Work towards learning, but also work towards finding another solution to survive in the meantime. I have found jobs in either side of Switzerland without fluently speaking either of the main languages nor having real corporate experience. I have seen other expats in the same boat, eventually we all find our way. I wish you all the best!
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