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  #41  
Old 16.01.2019, 18:27
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Re: Police powers

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I know I have touched in a rough nerve.

Effective policing vs heavy handed policing.
I fear that this is a new phenomenon (generationally) and could end up destroying the high levels of faith and confidence in the constabulary that have been built up over the previous generations. A feature we all enjoy when we boast of living in a country where leaving your house or car unlocked is still done.
In addition to the regulations I already mentioned, the police also have their "internal guidelines" which provide guidance. In the case of the City of Zurich police these have been revised end of 2017 and state that a search of a person is admissible if one of five criteria are given, i.e.:
- as part of a manhunt;
- in light of a current threat level;
- in light of a specific hazard situation;
- in case of suspicious behaviour; or
- a particulary conspicious appearance.
The mere experience of a police officer (i.e. I have the feeling he is up to no good) is not sufficient and the person who is searched has the right to be informed as to the reason why he was searched.

A large part of police work (I would guess) is looking for suspicious behaviour. The Zurich Cantonal Police has training seminars on "Aspect" = (Analyzing Suspicious People and Cognitive Training) which focuses on recognizing suspicious behaviour based on psychologicaly evaluated behaviour patterns and on using interrogation techniques when questioning people.
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  #42  
Old 16.01.2019, 18:33
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Re: Police powers

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I get this "special" treatment too. They all assume I am Swiss German.
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  #43  
Old 16.01.2019, 18:57
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Re: Police powers

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In addition to the regulations I already mentioned, the police also have their "internal guidelines" which provide guidance. In the case of the City of Zurich police these have been revised end of 2017.
However, OP mentioned 'Border Police', who in fact have far more power than local or cantonal police with regards to searches, use of force, etc.

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This is border police. I think it is important to make a distinction here.
I live within a few km of the border myself and know this very well.
Tom
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  #44  
Old 16.01.2019, 21:37
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Re: Police powers

geez... 3 pages full of what? complaints that the police is doing their job?
I don't know what the problem is? they stop me, ask for my id/papers, search me, fine me if there is a reason... so? if it's just for a suspicious fact and then they let me go, why bother? me: have nice day, officer. officer: thank you for your cooperation. nice day yourself. fin.
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  #45  
Old 16.01.2019, 21:53
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Re: Police powers

You might want to spend some time in the US if you think these are random and questionable police shakedowns with a racist element...

Especially because they are not as all of them were indeed breaking the law, as pointed out by others. Seems they all got off fairly easy anyway, compared to what they would have potentially experienced elsewhere.
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  #46  
Old 16.01.2019, 22:12
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Re: Police powers

After my previsous rant, I can confirm that in most cases I like Swiss police, or actually the lack of their aquaintance.


My wife in from the middle east, you can easily see that she's obvisouly a foreigner. In 10 years of Switzerland, including commute train rides in 8 of those 10 years by train, and many other outdoor activities in urban areas, she/we were so far not once checked by police.


Zip. Nada. Nothing.
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  #47  
Old 16.01.2019, 22:25
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Re: Police powers

I bought a massive joint near the tram stop at Albisriederplatz before Christmas. Carried it home in a plastic bag. Should I give myself up to the police?

By the way it was lovely roasted and served with veg and mint sauce
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  #48  
Old 17.01.2019, 09:02
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Re: Police powers

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After working in the heart of Paradeplatz in Zurich, I can tell you they do! And they have the money to pay the fines too...

In Klein Basel, there is a busy platz, that has the nickname "Cocaineplatz" as you can go there at any time to procure some. It is within 100 meters of the police station, and yet I have never seen one police officer around controlling anything.
They don't want to disturb the business. :-) Yes, of course corruption exists here too. Not so visible like in other places, but still.

There's corruption and...corruption, though. One of the cases that was mentioned here - someone caught speeding or whatever and fined on the spot, nah, they don't keep those money. What I suspect is they have some sort of "quota" of fines to make but that's a different thing.
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  #49  
Old 17.01.2019, 12:21
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Re: Police powers

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The fruit and nut trees you see growing along the roadside in the countryside are usually owned by someone. So by picking those cherries you were probably stealing from their owner; my son's in-laws lose a percentage of their crop every year to passers by who think that because the trees aren't growing near a house they're 'free'. And a few times recently the trees have been stripped overnight!!

The commune won't let them enclose the orchard and 'private propery' signs are also regularly nicked.
Exactly my point: stolen cherries taste sooo much better and hopping left-right across the border is just a buzz. Tell your in-laws to put up notices that the trees/ground has been recently sprayed with some deadly chemical or better maybe that the whole farm is a military training ground. Stripping the trees overnight is, I must admit, exactly the sort of anti-social behaviour that should get the perpetrators sent to prison. What is the profile of a professional cherry stealer?
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Old 17.01.2019, 13:15
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Re: Police powers

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Exactly my point: stolen cherries taste sooo much better and hopping left-right across the border is just a buzz. Tell your in-laws to put up notices that the trees/ground has been recently sprayed with some deadly chemical or better maybe that the whole farm is a military training ground. Stripping the trees overnight is, I must admit, exactly the sort of anti-social behaviour that should get the perpetrators sent to prison. What is the profile of a professional cherry stealer?
A naughty grandma' who is in urgent need for her preserves.

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  #51  
Old 17.01.2019, 13:36
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Re: Police powers

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Exactly my point: stolen cherries taste sooo much better and hopping left-right across the border is just a buzz. Tell your in-laws to put up notices that the trees/ground has been recently sprayed with some deadly chemical or better maybe that the whole farm is a military training ground. Stripping the trees overnight is, I must admit, exactly the sort of anti-social behaviour that should get the perpetrators sent to prison. What is the profile of a professional cherry stealer?
It has it's own rough justice, though. My sister and I spent a day nicking apples and pears from a farmer's orchard when we were kids then spent that night and much of the next day with the mother of all bellyaches and the roaring squits.

I think they must have been cooking or cider fruit.
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Old 17.01.2019, 13:55
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Re: Police powers

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You haven't got the balls to do that !
Before or afterwards?
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  #53  
Old 17.01.2019, 14:06
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Re: Police powers

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I bought a massive joint near the tram stop at Albisriederplatz before Christmas. Carried it home in a plastic bag. Should I give myself up to the police?

By the way it was lovely roasted and served with veg and mint sauce
Was it smoked?
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Old 17.01.2019, 14:08
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Re: Police powers

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Exactly my point: stolen cherries taste sooo much better and hopping left-right across the border is just a buzz. Tell your in-laws to put up notices that the trees/ground has been recently sprayed with some deadly chemical or better maybe that the whole farm is a military training ground. Stripping the trees overnight is, I must admit, exactly the sort of anti-social behaviour that should get the perpetrators sent to prison. What is the profile of a professional cherry stealer?
I would nip over the border in Basel to nick grapes from the vinyards...
They were sprayed and I was sick for days before I learned my lesson.
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Old 17.01.2019, 14:23
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Re: Police powers

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More details I learned on the first day, when he still talked about it, was that obviously on that day a bank was robbed in Zurich by some guy wearing a balaclava. But the part of the eyes which was visible was then run through a database, and the database said "it's him". Why was he in this database? We all are! The photo you have to hand in for your Aufenthaltsbewilligung is apparently stored electronically and registered for facial recognition.

No need to tell me you don't believe any of it. If it hadn't happened in my house with myself as a witness, I would also not really believe it.
Not just you foreigners, (in addition, perhaps) everybody in Schengenland with a biometric passport. The fotos are the basis for automated passport checks at airports, the otherwise unnecessarily short passport validity makes sure the fotos are reasonably recent.

That said, what should have been done different? Obviously things didn't work out as planned, but a robber is usually armed so you don't want give them advance notice (not that that worked too well).

Besides, if he doesn't talk about it how do you know he got a pretty huge compensation? Emphasis on "know" as opposed to speculate, plausible as it may be.
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Old 17.01.2019, 14:58
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Re: Police powers

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Before or afterwards?



is it that important for Omtatsat ?
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  #57  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:40
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Re: Police powers

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Also from the replies in the thread, some expats seem to share the stereotype Swiss opinion that if you are guilty of something you deserve to be caught. If that is the case, we all should be locked-up.
Eh, what???
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  #58  
Old 17.01.2019, 17:04
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Re: Police powers

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I bought a massive joint near the tram stop at Albisriederplatz before Christmas. Carried it home in a plastic bag. Should I give myself up to the police?

By the way it was lovely roasted and served with veg and mint sauce
In Zurich if it contained less than 10g you were legal and would have wasted the police's time.
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  #59  
Old 17.01.2019, 17:11
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Re: Police powers

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They were profiling, there was no evidence of a crime.

The same thing happened to my husband recently. He works in a residential area, and had changed for the gym post-work. The police pulled him over, searched him and tried to hold him despite not having any evidence of a crime. The only reason why they eventually let him go was because a colleague of his drove by and stopped to see what was the matter. Once she confirmed that he worked at the company, they let him go.

Turns out this has happened to other colleagues of his too, the "duffel bag" and "hoodie" were what gave them cause to search an innocent civilian. I find it laughable and ridiculous, considering where I come from which is essentially a police state. If they ever patrolled outside business hours the area I live in on the Rhine, they would be able to fine and hold hoards of pot smoking teenagers.
I can relate to this, it was a shock for me also how the police decided just to search me, even though I am a white female was just standing at the bus station late evening after gym, when an undercover cop in usual clothes in usual skoda car just stopped in front of me, I got really scarred at first because I was alone and there was no one around, my first thought was to immediately run, but instead I started to walk away to see if he starts to follow, then the cop got out of the car and said in German to stop, showed his identity badge (only name written and that point I was already at some distance from him and I couldn't really understand he is a cop) and basically said "Give me your residence permit, and what I am doing at the bus station?". I couldn't believe it and couldn't just give my residence permit to some random guy, so I kept asking who is he and what does he want (at some distance from him), he only kept repeating he is from police and needs my residence permit (but I already heard plenty of stories about criminals pretending to be police to rob you), good at least later the usual police car full of cops arrived in uniform and for sure my basic self-preserving instincts were interpreted as I was a resistant criminal who has to be fully searched, and I got the full procedure, all documents were taken from me to be checked at the gym, phone taken from me immediately, all personal details written down, all my jewelry written down and constant questions "if it belongs to me", lasted for an hour or so, the entire situation I felt like a helpless person stripped from my bag and documents with 5 cops exercising on me what they have learned at their school. Only after that situation I realized in what country I am and how helpless you are even if you didn't do anything (may be the guys are more immune to such things, but for me it was a real shock). Since then I avoid even any eye contact with them, because my entire life mentality of a usual white female, who never has any troubles, quickly evaporated here, and especially after I started to drive here, this is when even more searches happen and more troubles start. The best is to avoid at maximum any intersection with them, but when a search does happen there is no point in claiming any rights and it is better not to resist anything.
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Old 17.01.2019, 19:43
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Re: Police powers

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...can't wait for your next exciting thread.
Why the sarcasm? I thought the post was quite interesting.
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