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Old 24.02.2019, 23:30
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Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

Long story short> My wife had a seizure (she is epileptic) on the street and she happened to be bringing my electric scooter to our new apartment. Police found her, called an ambulance and picked up my scooter, now they are holding it until "they know what to do because there is no legislation for it", their words.

Although she was not riding it, she was on the sidewalk and that's where it can be used (I was stopped by the police while riding on the bikeway and they told me that I could use it on the sidewalk only).

My question is:

Is there a time limit for them to hold my belongings?

Can I do something about it or just wait until they figure out how can they fine me (her) ?

Regards,
Rick
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Old 25.02.2019, 01:06
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

Yes, you can do something.

It is likely that the police will need to look up the category of vehicle... and showing them your documents could help, as there's a big grey area in "less than a car but more than a bicycle". Some aspects will be defined.

Supply the police with the manufacturer's documents of the vehicle, showing its capacity, maximum speed, dimensions, etc., and its purpose. If you have any kind of licence for the vehicle or driver, or insurance covering it for theft or accident, show them those. If you or your wife (or any other family member) have/has a disability which means you rely on this vehicle, provide evidence of that.

If you can demonstrate, with a doctor's certificate, that you are reliant on the vehicle, and if you show yourself to be cooperative and helpful, (and appreciative that they got help for your wife and didn't abandon the vehicle), they may be willing to process things more quickly.

Good luck, and I hope your wife is alright.
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Old 25.02.2019, 01:41
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

If she wasn't using/riding it, there is no reason for them to keep it.

Large majority of those things (almost all, if not all)) are not street legal, and may I ask what model it is, since I am not aware of electro scooters that only can be used on the sidewalk? I don't know better then that the law does forbid them to be used on the sidewalks.
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Old 25.02.2019, 12:10
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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If she wasn't using/riding it, there is no reason for them to keep it.

Large majority of those things (almost all, if not all)) are not street legal, and may I ask what model it is, since I am not aware of electro scooters that only can be used on the sidewalk? I don't know better then that the law does forbid them to be used on the sidewalks.
It looks like that's at least partially outdated:
Segway Switzerland themselves say their scooter's 20km/h version are roadworthy and classed as Leicht-Motorfahhrad (light e-bike), to be used like a bicycle.

The 30km/h scooter version probably still can't be ridden on public space.

That said, AFAIK being epileptic can bring restrictions of its own (IIRC you can't get a driving permit if it's less than a year since the most recent seizure). That may add complexity to the situation.
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Old 25.02.2019, 12:32
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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Is there a time limit for them to hold my belongings?
Formally ask them, using a good old fashioned letter, that you want your stuff back. They will than have to give you a formal answer or your stuff back.
If they think your wife might have used it it might take a bit longer.


Here the Police from the City of Zurich on various vehicles:
https://www.bfu.ch/de/Documents/01_R...apozuerich.pdf
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Old 25.02.2019, 14:35
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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It looks like that's at least partially outdated:
Segway Switzerland themselves say their scooter's 20km/h version are roadworthy and classed as Leicht-Motorfahhrad (light e-bike), to be used like a bicycle.

The 30km/h scooter version probably still can't be ridden on public space.

That said, AFAIK being epileptic can bring restrictions of its own (IIRC you can't get a driving permit if it's less than a year since the most recent seizure). That may add complexity to the situation.
Yes, Segway has a few models that are allowed, I myself would not call the traditional Segway a scooter btw, but their new kickscooter also recently seems to have gotten allowance. But let's face it, large majority of electro scooters we see on the pavement/street are illegal.
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Old 25.02.2019, 16:07
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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Yes, Segway has a few models that are allowed, I myself would not call the traditional Segway a scooter btw, but their new kickscooter also recently seems to have gotten allowance. But let's face it, large majority of electro scooters we see on the pavement/street are illegal.
I saw a bloke get pulled over for using one on the Limmatquai in Zurich a few weeks ago. It's on my route to work so I saw him every day about the same time barreling along, mainly weaving along the pavement until he got to cobbles and then he'd dip onto the road. The speed they can reach is pretty hairy and I know it caught a few people unawares as he zipped past them.

One morning the police were waiting for him. Or they were there and they got lucky but either way, they seemed pretty keen to question him.

Haven't seen him since. Bad lad.
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Old 27.02.2019, 12:13
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

Hello, thanks for the messages, really great infos you guys provided.

Sorry to keep this long to answer, but I had to keep going to the police until they answer me.

So, they told that they were keeping that long because they were performing technical tests to see if the scooter was in good conditions (meaning not technical flaws). And yes, they could not prove any malfunction.

Today they returned it to me. I felt outraged with their questions and I could not leave without answering them things like: how much is my income per month.

They could not point me any law that says that it cannot be used, but told me that I could not use it anymore. They also said that it cant be used on places where there is car traffic.

They said that this electric scooter is in the same level of those seated scooters that can reach 45 km/h but I could not ride it even if I have a license.

Furthermore, the xiaomi m365 (electric scooter brand, 25 km/h max speed and 250W) did not have swiss quality seal.

With all that being said, it looks like they don't know how to deal with it and it is all fuzzy.

It looks like it all happened because they were trying to justify an accident and could not believe that my wife just fell on the street carrying that stuff. I mean, she couldnt be riding it, she had a backpack and two bags of stuff that she was moving to our new apartment, and I got it all on the hospital except the scooter.

Sometimes I think that these cops overreact trying to maintain order over here
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Old 27.02.2019, 13:24
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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Furthermore, the xiaomi m365 (electric scooter brand, 25 km/h max speed and 250W) did not have swiss quality seal.
Too fast. Max 20 km/h is permitted Art. 18 VTS https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a18 . Using it on public roads and places is a violation of Art. 219 VTS https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a219 and Art. 93 SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a93

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I felt outraged with their questions and I could not leave without answering them things like: how much is my income per month.
A violation of Art. 93 SVG might lead to an income based monetary penalty.
Don't break the law if you do not like those questions. See Art. 161 Criminal Procedure Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a161
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Old 27.02.2019, 13:47
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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Too fast. Max 20 km/h is permitted Art. 18 VTS https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a18 . Using it on public roads and places is a violation of Art. 219 VTS https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a219 and Art. 93 SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a93


A violation of Art. 93 SVG might lead to an income based monetary penalty.
Don't break the law if you do not like those questions. See Art. 161 Criminal Procedure Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a161
Thanks for the links!
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Old 27.02.2019, 20:04
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

That model is being used by Lime and other sharing apps all over the world and some people might think it's legal everywhere but indeed is not legal in CH due to max speed limit being only 20 km/h here. The legal ones you can use as a bicycle.
Online shops like digitec have very clear information on which ones can be used on the road.
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Old 27.02.2019, 21:40
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

Besides the speed and such I don't think it has clearance anyway in Switzerland, so it would be illegal to use it where ever unless on private grounds.

Surely people should know the law, but people also expect if they buy something like this in for example mediamarkt in town that they can also use it, might be good if there would come some default folder with legal info which has to be handed when buying such equipment until public awareness has grown.
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Old 28.02.2019, 16:21
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

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A violation of Art. 93 SVG might lead to an income based monetary penalty.
Don't break the law if you do not like those questions. See Art. 161 Criminal Procedure Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a161
Well, let's not pretend the laws in Switzerland are so clear or accessible. Plenty of them are cryptic or obscure to the point where you'd never know there's even a possibility of violation. Sometimes the only way to learn the law is to break the law. And even then, the questions that follow are often far overreaching, as the police love the opportunity to find out more than they're entitled to, ESPECIALLY about non-natives who don't know their rights.
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Old 28.02.2019, 16:28
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Re: Police is holding my belongings, are they right?

I think the law when it comes to motorised vehicles is equal in all Western European countries. "not allowed unless specifically allowed"

And surely one should not expect to be able to buy a toy/gadget at Mediamarkt or Franz Carl Weber and just be able to take it on the road. We understand this all for electrical kids cars, but when it has the shape of a step or scooter we suddenly expect all is allowed while there is no difference.
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