Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.02.2019, 20:52
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
CanadianBear has no particular reputation at present
Photocopy of car registration document enough?

I make it a practice not to carry my motorcycle's registration document ( "Licenza di circolazione" or "Fahrzeugausweis") on my bike, only a photocopy.

This is probably from living in the UK, where a signature on the V5 reg document was effectively the way a thief could argue you sold them the car, and if stopped by Police you have 7 days to bring the documents in to a police station ( https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police...ng-your-rights ).

Indeed I've seen others here on this forum recommend the same photocopy only practice:

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-card-car.html


Today I got stopped and was threatened with a fine for not having originals. Can anyone point me to the actual law on this?

Last edited by CanadianBear; 28.02.2019 at 21:09.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at CanadianBear for this post:
  #2  
Old 28.02.2019, 21:06
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,201
Groaned at 290 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 15,897 Times in 8,843 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
I make it a practice not to carry my motorcycle's registration document ( "Licenza di circolazione" or "Fahrzeugausweis") on my bike, only a photocopy.

This is probably from living in the UK, where a signature on the V5 reg document was effectively the way a thief could argue you sold them the car, and if stopped by Police you have 7 days to bring the documents in to a police station ( https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police...ng-your-rights ).

Indeed I've seen others here on this forum recommend the same photocopy only practice:

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-card-car.html


Today I got stopped and was threatened with a fine for not having originals. Does anyone know what the actual law is on this?
You need to carry originals.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 28.02.2019, 21:11
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
CanadianBear has no particular reputation at present
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
You need to carry originals.
Thanks. That's what the police officer said, before he let me off with a 'warning' when I respectfully offered to accept the ticket from him but stated I would contest it.

Would you happen to be able to point me to the law on this?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at CanadianBear for this post:
  #4  
Old 28.02.2019, 21:18
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,788
Groaned at 82 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 16,332 Times in 7,260 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

The fine for not having the originals with you is CHF 20
See OBV Item 100.3 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#app1

Actual law which mandates that you must have the gray card with you is Art. 10 Abs. 4 SVG
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a10

Contesting a simple fine can be a very costly experience. If you lose the case you will have to pay court fee and in addition to that the fine can also be higher.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 28.02.2019, 21:54
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,481
Groaned at 1,721 Times in 1,311 Posts
Thanked 31,870 Times in 15,247 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
I respectfully offered to accept the ticket from him but stated I would contest it.
Well, that was stupid on your part.

There is nothing to contest, and if you do you will lose and it will cost you.

Anyway, just keep it in your wallet if you are that paranoid.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 28.02.2019 at 22:12.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #6  
Old 01.03.2019, 02:17
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
CanadianBear has no particular reputation at present
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
Well, that was stupid on your part. :rolleyes
Call it what you like, but it was based on an awareness that in civil societies there is usually a provision allowing you to present original documents at a later date (within a reasonable time -- see e.g. the Swiss laws on non-requirements to carry id or residence permits -- https://www.bdm.bs.ch/.../jcr.../3-a...regelung-d.pdf ) and based on experience that sometimes officers of the law (in Switzerland and elsewhere) 'embellish' slightly what they're actually allowed to require.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users groan at CanadianBear for this post:
  #7  
Old 01.03.2019, 03:05
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,400
Groaned at 118 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 5,235 Times in 2,473 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
the Swiss laws on non-requirements to carry id or residence permits
So long as you don’t mind being detained until they are satisfied of your identity and right to be in the Schengen Area that one should work out fine for you too.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 01.03.2019, 08:54
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
CanadianBear has no particular reputation at present
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
So long as you don’t mind being detained
You do realize that freedom in civil society only works because we collectively expect it to, right?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.03.2019, 09:41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 303
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 212 Times in 136 Posts
KiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeableKiwiSteve is considered knowledgeable
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
You do realize that freedom in civil society only works because we collectively expect it to, right?
Different countries, different cultures. Switzerland has lots of petty restrictions and a requirement to carry original personal and vehicle identifications. Internal control, official and social, is relatively high which allows for lax border control. But in terms of big freedoms; political and social, it stands international comparison favourably. It may not be multicultural Toronto or Vancouver but there is a lot of history to explain/understand the differences.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank KiwiSteve for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 01.03.2019, 09:59
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
CanadianBear has no particular reputation at present
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
Different countries, different cultures. Switzerland has lots of petty restrictions and a requirement to carry original personal and vehicle identifications.
Whose culture are you creating? There's no legal requirement to carry personal ID in Switzerland. In fact I seem to recall the country's founding hero was a bit anti-authoritarian. Article 9 of the Swiss constitution is pretty clear about making up arbitrary rules.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CanadianBear for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at CanadianBear for this post:
  #11  
Old 01.03.2019, 10:03
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,481
Groaned at 1,721 Times in 1,311 Posts
Thanked 31,870 Times in 15,247 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Personal ID is one thing, vehicle registration and driving license are another.

Regarding personal ID, you must be able to identify yourself, otherwise they can detain you until you do.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 01.03.2019, 10:14
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 11,259
Groaned at 170 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 16,013 Times in 6,504 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
Whose culture are you creating? There's no legal requirement to carry personal ID in Switzerland.
This is true. But it makes life easier for you if you do. I carry my driving licence and have never had any trouble. You have to carry your licence with you when you drive anyway - or, you guessed it, a forty franc fine (IIRC).

Regarding the grey card. If your car is stopped at the border and the driver's name doesn't match the name on the card (or address, or family name), then you might also be detained. Since there's no car theft within Switzerland this means that only international thieves are a risk, and they'll be caught by the ever vigilant border guards anyway.

You should, I understand, if borrowing a car across borders, carry a signed permission note from the owner.
__________________
Boomers tend to believe in “freedom of speech”, which is a fascist concept used to spread hateful ideas.Given that hate speech is not possible without free speech, any defence of free speech is a form of hate speech. - Titania McGrath
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 01.03.2019, 11:14
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
CanadianBear has no particular reputation at present
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
You should, I understand, if borrowing a car across borders, carry a signed permission note from the owner.
Our car is in my wife's name, so I have the form from the comune certifying me as authorized.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01.03.2019, 11:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,324
Groaned at 258 Times in 194 Posts
Thanked 15,554 Times in 5,445 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

I would contest the fine.
Please post the outcome on a Friday.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 01.03.2019, 11:34
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,822
Groaned at 139 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 10,509 Times in 5,589 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

Quote:
View Post
The fine for not having the originals with you is CHF 20
See OBV Item 100.3 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#app1

Actual law which mandates that you must have the gray card with you is Art. 10 Abs. 4 SVG
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a10

Contesting a simple fine can be a very costly experience. If you lose the case you will have to pay court fee and in addition to that the fine can also be higher.
Wow, a 100% increase . It used to be Fr. 10.00 and sometimes even free if one went to the police station to show the original document the next day.

I started to only keep a copy of the car-doc. in my car as my new mechanics like to park my car accross the street with the windows open and the key in the ignition for the time between they finish working on it and me picking it up. LOL. TIS.
Guess, I'll change that again.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 01.03.2019, 12:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 1,917
Groaned at 67 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,910 Times in 981 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Photocopy of car registration document enough?

For the first time in over 34 years in this fair land I was pulled over today for a 'control' by the police. I had my driving license, but I couldn't find my carte gris. I shrugged my shoulders and apologised profusely. He checked my dl in his cell phone thingie and told me I was OK. He warned me that he could have given me a ticket for not having the cg.

Of course the garage had moved the folder it was in at the last service. It was in the car but I couldn't present it. On my way back they were still there and I rolled down the window to show it to them, but they were not interested and waived me through.

I have a file of 'important documents' that I can access on my Phone. I told them I could pull that up, but he wasn't interested.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
car, documents, motorcycle, police, registration




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the registration enough? lcdega Permits/visas/government 10 10.07.2018 16:27
Fahrzeugausweis - Vehicle registration document fatih.erol Transportation/driving 42 11.10.2015 13:36
Lost Car Registration Document AlexS Transportation/driving 19 18.08.2014 17:16
Change of canton- Car registration MaxMan Transportation/driving 10 10.01.2012 16:02
Change of Car Registration Istebraq Permits/visas/government 16 14.01.2010 13:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0