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Old 13.03.2019, 17:40
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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Apostrophes are never used for plurals. Possession and ommision (contractions) only.

So, Tina's exam.

The only time you use an apostrophe after an s is when the word ends with an s. Carlos' exam. Or Carlos's. Either is fine.
I understood it as the "collective" Tinas (i.e. the Tinas of this world and their parents, so Tinas' parents). Bit unusual usage but could be bent to fit.
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  #22  
Old 13.03.2019, 17:41
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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took it to a uni in northern Germany to share with some of the students he knew there - none of them could pass the test, and they were German natives ...
Uni students are unable to do the Langgymi entrance test performed by 6th graders?
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  #23  
Old 13.03.2019, 17:43
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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What's wrong with MC's post? Possessive plural hence Tinas'. No?
The whole sentence construction is wrong.

If you want to make the names plural to indicate more than one Tina or Remo you have to construct the sentence differently. You can’t use the plural names in the possessive form.

In this case

You cannot imagine how many parents of Tinas or Remos believe that it up to the school alone to help kids make it to gymnase.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 13.03.2019 at 18:11.
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Old 13.03.2019, 18:04
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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If you want to make the names plural to indicate more than one Tina or Remo you have to construct the sentence differently. You can’t use the plural names in the possessive form.
Merriam-Webster disagrees.
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Old 13.03.2019, 18:11
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

The wole idea of so many Tinas and Remos existing is wrong, on purpose. Which was the point of metonymy. We were talkin' about kids. So "you wouldn't believe how many kids' parents" is incorrect while "you wouldn't believe how many parents of kids" is actually more correct?

Just sayin'

The gymnase tests are tough. It is more about rigor, attitude, grit and persistence than genius. We drilled with kids for the exam and we had 98% success rate, after cca 6mo prep time, 16hrs per month worth of classroom instruction (on to of another, regular program) and the rest they were on their own. When you set your mind to it, you give up evenings, weekends and holidays for a half year, you have supportive and experienced teachers - you make it. I run into their proud smiles quite a bit.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 13.03.2019 at 19:31.
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Old 13.03.2019, 18:17
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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Merriam-Webster disagrees.
That’s totally different.

In MC’s sentence she tried to use two plurals of names and the possessive form together and you just can’t do that.
Who do the parents belong to? Not all the Tinas and Remos that’s for sure.

That’s why you have to say ‘The parents of Tinas or Remos’ when referring to multiple people of the same name.

It’s complex grammar and not something that one would usually have to worry about but as MC is a teacher I thought she might like to know.

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The wole idea of so many Tinas and Remos existing is wrong, on purpose. Which was the point of metonymy. We were talkin' about kids. So "you wouldn't believe how many kids' parents" is incorrect while "you wouldn't believe how many parents of kids" is actually more correct?
Since when has kids been a name?

“You wouldn’t believe how many kids’ parents’ is absolutely fine

“You wouldn’t believe how many Tinas’ parents’ isn’t


Hope this helps.
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Old 13.03.2019, 18:23
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

That's not how metonymy works. You weren't substituting one term for another you were using plurals in a way that didn't work. That dictionary ref is to something else...

Edit. Still playing catch up to BM. Who is right.

Just sayin', of course.

So Switzerland teaches to the test too then. Interesting.
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Old 13.03.2019, 18:30
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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That’s totally different.

In MC’s sentence she tried to use two plurals and the possessive form together and you just can’t do that.
Who do the parents belong to? Not all the Tinas and Remos that’s for sure.

That’s why you have to say ‘The parents of Tinas or Remos’ when referring to multiple people of the same name.

It’s complex grammar and not something that one would usually have to worry about but as MC is a teacher I thought she might like to know.
Thanks. That's better than "Oops indeed"

I am not sure it would actually apply, still - to be a bit more nitpicky - when I use Tinas and Remos not as selectively, ie all those Tinas and Remos who as Loz referrred to are down-career oriented, but indeed represent almost all local kids. So it is not used as "names" of those particular kids desiring to pass a very streaming gymnase exam, but simply as "kids" here. It is such a phenomenon. Capisce? I am really refering to the post Loz wrote and irony of the situation.

Hence, CH does not teach towards an exam. Which can be a problem. But it ain't because there are weekend or after school drills that can help kids catch up if they desire so.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 13.03.2019 at 18:41.
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  #29  
Old 13.03.2019, 18:35
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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Thanks. That's better than "Oops indeed"

I am not sure it would actually apply, still - to be a bit more nitpicky - when I use Tinas and Remos not as selectively, ie all those Tinas and Remos who as Loz referrred to are down-career oriented, but indeed represent almost all local kids. So it is not used as "names" of those particular kids desiring to pass a very streaming gymnase exam, but simply as "kids" here. It is such a phenomenon. Capisce? I am really refering to the post Loz wrote and irony of the situation.
It applies. It's clear that the Tinas/Remos are generic substitutes or whatever the term is but BM is still correct.
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  #30  
Old 13.03.2019, 18:51
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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It applies. It's clear that the Tinas/Remos are generic substitutes or whatever the term is but BM is still correct.
Exactly.

You can’t use a proper name as a random substitute for a generic term and expect to follow the rules for the generic term. They are still names and therefore need to be treated as such.
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Old 13.03.2019, 19:09
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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Good news for all who wonder if the would pass Zürich's Gymi entry test, past tests are now available online.

Perhaps give it a try yourself.

zentraleaufnahmepruefung.ch
Nope, can't say the though every entered my head.... and having seeing what my son went through to achieve it I can safely say I would not be will to put in the effort to start with.
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  #32  
Old 13.03.2019, 19:15
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

Didn't even look at the link to know that I would never have passed this test.

I know how much was involved when my daughter sat the test, and no way was I in that position to support - there are thankfully courses available which can help.

(She's now doing her masters, with flying colours)
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  #33  
Old 13.03.2019, 19:48
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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Capisce? I am really refering to the post Loz wrote and irony of the situation.
.
Actually it should be "Capisci?"....I am kidding, seriously. Never been a grammar "nazi", not even in my native language. Actually I'd like to see a non-native speaker trying to correct me. I've met a few odd birds who were in love with it, can't complain of what I've heard though. Music to my ears.

Back to the gymi tests. My husband (whose office is close to Rämibühl) had to "comfort" one of our friends who was hanging around yesterday, waiting for his kido to finish his tests. They had a coffee somewhere nearby. Incredible amount of stress but also supportiveness from some parents' part. Yep, foreign parents. I think at the end of the day this is the most important factor - one that could really make a difference.

Last edited by greenmount; 13.03.2019 at 20:11.
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  #34  
Old 13.03.2019, 21:44
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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Uni students are unable to do the Langgymi entrance test performed by 6th graders?
They hadn't spent the better part of 12 months training for it ...

Even a Swiss teacher I know who teaches German in a Zurich Gymnasium admits that in each test there are questions which are ambiguous.
As for marking the essays ... at least one school has no clear marking scheme, as another friend of mine found out when they asked for a review of their son's paper. Spoke to two different senior German teachers (on different days), got two very different explanations of why the essay wasn't acceptable. Neither had done the original marking of that particular essay.

As for those apostrophes ... if there are many Tinas, and they have parents, you can most certainly have the Tinas' parents. What would you use instead? The Tinas parents? The Tinas's parents? Or the Tina's parents?
The Oxford Dictionary doesn't specifically address having many people possessing something together, but does include guidelines on plural possessive nouns in general.
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Old 13.03.2019, 21:52
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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As for those apostrophes ... if there are many Tinas, and they have parents, you can most certainly have the Tinas' parents. What would you use instead? The Tinas parents? The Tinas's parents? Or the Tina's parents?
The Oxford Dictionary doesn't specifically address having many people possessing something together, but does include guidelines on plural possessive nouns in general.
You can certainly say the Tinas’ parents but that wasn’t what MC posted.

In that case the sentence should read

You wouldn’t believe how many of the Tinas’ and the Remos’ parents.......
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Old 13.03.2019, 22:06
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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They hadn't spent the better part of 12 months training for it ...

Even a Swiss teacher I know who teaches German in a Zurich Gymnasium admits that in each test there are questions which are ambiguous.
As for marking the essays ... at least one school has no clear marking scheme, as another friend of mine found out when they asked for a review of their son's paper. Spoke to two different senior German teachers (on different days), got two very different explanations of why the essay wasn't acceptable. Neither had done the original marking of that particular essay.

As for those apostrophes ... if there are many Tinas, and they have parents, you can most certainly have the Tinas' parents. What would you use instead? The Tinas parents? The Tinas's parents? Or the Tina's parents?
The Oxford Dictionary doesn't specifically address having many people possessing something together, but does include guidelines on plural possessive nouns in general.
The thing is - it's not really the Tinas' parents when they mean all parents. They are not in fact particular parents, the Tinas' parents. Liz meant "Tinas and Remos" as all kids.
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Old 13.03.2019, 23:01
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

Failed the maths as I did not understand all of the operators used.
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Old 14.03.2019, 06:54
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

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They hadn't spent the better part of 12 months training for it ...

Even a Swiss teacher I know who teaches German in a Zurich Gymnasium admits that in each test there are questions which are ambiguous.
As for marking the essays ... at least one school has no clear marking scheme, as another friend of mine found out when they asked for a review of their son's paper. Spoke to two different senior German teachers (on different days), got two very different explanations of why the essay wasn't acceptable. Neither had done the original marking of that particular essay.
.
The proper question should be "Would you have passed the test if you were in the 6th grade?Or 8th?" Every test has some parts that are very difficult. I'm not that surprised that someone who has moved on with their studies is not able to perform those subjects at an acceptable level. As you say, it's definitely less complex than what they're currently studying but it takes training.
Marking an essay is always somehow subjective, I think. Exactly the way parents believe their children are "meant" to go to a specific school but maybe they aren't, if compared with other children. There are so many preparatory private schools (in canton Zurich at least), I wonder if people are aware of this amazing offer.
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Old 14.03.2019, 08:32
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

My son took the test earlier this week and we await the result.

The material in the exams is ahead of what is covered in the normal course of teaching in 5th and 6th grade primary. In the maths, there are some aspects that we (UK in the early 1980s) only covered at O and A-level. For example simultaneous equations with more than two variables, bisecting angles and lines with a compass. No idea when the same topics are covered in the normal school setting.

There are 10 questions to be completed in an hour - in spite of my quasi mathematical background I found it quite tough to complete a question within 6 minutes.

My son’s school had an additional coaching session for hopefuls on Wednesday afternoons to go over past papers. I have no idea how many parents paid for private tuition. My wife and I have enough of an academic background that we could help give my son hints on how to tackle the questions.

Gymnasium itself is quite high stress I believe - the pupils have to keep their grade averages up or be busted to Sek.

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 14.03.2019, 09:04
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Re: Would *you* pass the Gymi entry test?

Also been through the stress for the last 6 months. Got a weekend of treats planned for all of us to de-stress.

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My son took the test earlier this week and we await the result.

The material in the exams is ahead of what is covered in the normal course of teaching in 5th and 6th grade primary. In the maths, there are some aspects that we (UK in the early 1980s) only covered at O and A-level. For example simultaneous equations with more than two variables, bisecting angles and lines with a compass. No idea when the same topics are covered in the normal school setting.

There are 10 questions to be completed in an hour - in spite of my quasi mathematical background I found it quite tough to complete a question within 6 minutes.
This.
OMG - it has been a hellhole trip down Memory Lane for me trying to figure out the maths. My husband is better at it but I was trying to show willing. Bless...

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My son’s school had an additional coaching session for hopefuls on Wednesday afternoons to go over past papers. I have no idea how many parents paid for private tuition. My wife and I have enough of an academic background that we could help give my son hints on how to tackle the questions.
Sweet FA from the school in our case. Forked out for 6 months of weekend coaching.

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Gymnasium itself is quite high stress I believe - the pupils have to keep their grade averages up or be busted to Sek.
Deep joy.
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