Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:06
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,234
Groaned at 131 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 9,884 Times in 5,271 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Actually I understand Amanda's anger about this.
It sucks. Specially from EU countries who have no other thing on their mind than to regulate absolutely everything to a T. And then don't follow their own rules.

I used to go apeshit about such stuff too ...... I guess I'm getting old.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 4,934
Groaned at 291 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 5,353 Times in 2,726 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
1. I never drink alcohol.

2. When I used to drink alcohol, I didn’t drink beer.

3. Do you realize there is no German VAT on the items? The bill says 0% VAT.


The subject of the thread is not "German VAT on items sold to Switzerland"

The subject is "20% price increase". That’s what they do.
A law that forbids them from taking an extra profit when they find out the delivery is to Switzerland would be good also.

Would that be a Swiss law (who don't care what Germans charge you and have even less interest in German VAT) or a German law (who don't care what the Swiss have to pay)?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:22
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 26,024
Groaned at 1,619 Times in 1,245 Posts
Thanked 30,190 Times in 14,415 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
we have laws.
Not regarding German VAT, nor what people in Germany do with it.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,163
Groaned at 16 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 701 Times in 413 Posts
Landers has earned the respect of manyLanders has earned the respect of manyLanders has earned the respect of many
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

I think there's a big difference between reimbursement of VAT for goods sold in Germany and personally exported by the buyer and not charging VAT on direct export sales. OP says the invoice had 0% German VAT but was the VAT inclusive price. If however it was the case that the item was a "deal" then it could be that the seller doesn't actually charge VAT. Sellers legally probably shouldn't charge home VAT on direct exports outside the EU.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:39
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

The more I think about it, the more I believe they don’t do it on purpose. Or not all of them.

Why?

I include a bill. It’s from Italy but it’s the same story. I talked about the seller in another subject. He is helpful and cares about the customer.

I asked another seller about it, and they told me Amazon calculated the price.

More or less every seller did the same.

Maybe they just enter a price for the item and don’t care. And that’s what the software does by default. I don’t know.

https://imgur.com/a/N2IhGIo

The item is here:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:40
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS
Posts: 7,296
Groaned at 227 Times in 169 Posts
Thanked 11,751 Times in 5,172 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
Actually I understand Amanda's anger about this.
It sucks.
I think we can all agree with that. What she was asking, however, is whether there's anything "illegal" about it, which isn't the same thing at all.

Quote:
View Post
Specially from EU countries who have no other thing on their mind to regulate absolutely everything to a T. And then don't follow their own rules.
They have rules about not charging VAT on exports, but only in the sense that they're allowed to remove the German VAT. The problem for many retailers is that they don't want to have to have different accounting processes for VAT and non-VAT sales, so they're just treating everything the same.

There's an assumption that they are in fact declaring and paying the German VAT as required, but if they were not doing so, i.e. they're charging VAT to the foreign buyer but then listing the sale as VAT free, then I'm pretty sure this would indeed be illegal under German law. But there's nothing to suggest that this is the case with these Amazon sellers.
__________________
Introduce yourself!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:43
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
I think there's a big difference between reimbursement of VAT for goods sold in Germany and personally exported by the buyer and not charging VAT on direct export sales. OP says the invoice had 0% German VAT but was the VAT inclusive price. If however it was the case that the item was a "deal" then it could be that the seller doesn't actually charge VAT. Sellers legally probably shouldn't charge home VAT on direct exports outside the EU.
If I had to guess now, my first bet would be:

Amazon’s software works like this by default unless the seller sets it up the correct way with extra effort.

The sellers don’t know how to do it or they don’t care.

But both Amazon and the sellers are happy for the extra profit until someone goes after whether this is legal or not.

I still think it’s unlikely legal because I should get the same net price regardless of my location. Only additional fees can change (posting). Or the sale can be denied. But if it’s sold, it should be the same net price.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:43
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,697
Groaned at 467 Times in 392 Posts
Thanked 13,254 Times in 5,264 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

<yawn>
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 08.04.2019, 16:45
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
There's an assumption that they are in fact declaring and paying the German VAT as required, but if they were not doing so, i.e. they're charging VAT to the foreign buyer but then listing the siale as VAT free, then I'm pretty sure this would indeed be illegal under German law. But there's nothing to suggest that this is the case with these Amzon sellers.
Look at the invoice I linked two posts ago. And look at the item on Amazon.

I can assure you that all other bills I could check since yesterday look the same. (If it’s from amazon.de and the seller is not Amazon). I don’t have them at home as I gave them my accountant. On amazon.de, there is no invoice by default unless it’s sold by Amazon. (Interesting). You need to press "Request invoice" for each order. I requested a few yesterday. I got zero so far. However, I remember I saw several printed bills with 0% VAT but the same price.

Last edited by Amanda Portman; 08.04.2019 at 17:00.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:13
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

I just received a bill. I masked out the details of the store and my personal details.

https://imgur.com/a/pNtsqkY

Again, the same price as the final price is with German VAT but the bill states 0% VAT. There is no way it’s correct to do this.

Last edited by Amanda Portman; 08.04.2019 at 17:34.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:19
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 26,024
Groaned at 1,619 Times in 1,245 Posts
Thanked 30,190 Times in 14,415 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

So complain to Amazon.de or the German tax office.

This has nothing to do with Switzerland.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,163
Groaned at 16 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 701 Times in 413 Posts
Landers has earned the respect of manyLanders has earned the respect of manyLanders has earned the respect of many
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

You could ask them if there has been some mistake. On their own website it deducts the German VAT if they ship to Switzerland. I've never found a third party seller on Amazon that will even ship to Switzerland, maybe because of the logistical issues.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:30
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 8,818
Groaned at 51 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 13,678 Times in 6,343 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

FYI your name Frau XYZ is still visible. You might want to fix that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:32
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,234
Groaned at 131 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 9,884 Times in 5,271 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
So complain to Amazon.de or the German tax office.

This has nothing to do with Switzerland.

Tom
Actually just ask amazon - before turning it into a complaint - they may not be aware of it or have an explanation.

Let's remember, Switzerland is a bit of a pain in the arse for the EU
Or maybe there is an English Forum in Norway that could be tapped.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:34
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
FYI your name Frau XYZ is still visible. You might want to fix that.
Once again, the price of laziness is double work. I fixed it.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:35
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
You could ask them if there has been some mistake. On their own website it deducts the German VAT if they ship to Switzerland. I've never found a third party seller on Amazon that will even ship to Switzerland, maybe because of the logistical issues.
I think it’s the mistake of the site because it’s too common. I just sent an answer to Amazon with a better understanding of what happens. Earlier, they sent me a copy-paste answer that they don’t do the VAT refund for third-party sellers. I can understand it because, in the beginning, I also thought the VAT was on it twice, and I had no invoices at hand.

Thank you for telling me that on their website, the price is correct. I will also show this to Amazon. It can’t be that all the sellers are "evil".
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:40
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
You could ask them if there has been some mistake. On their own website it deducts the German VAT if they ship to Switzerland. I've never found a third party seller on Amazon that will even ship to Switzerland, maybe because of the logistical issues.
Sometimes it’s impossible. In such case, I have to drive to Germany to pick it up.

Many times, it helps if you get the list of the sellers. I put 4-5 pieces of the same item from various sellers into my basket. Then, at the checkout process, I see if any of them delivers to Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:42
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,623
Groaned at 281 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 14,988 Times in 8,349 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
In order for the store to avoid paying the VAT, they have to show PROOF the item has left EU teritory and to do this, they need to show the invoice stamped by the customs at the point of exit from the EU.


Without this, they are liable to pasy 19% or whatever VAT to their government.


Any other way, such as Amada suggests, wrtiing on the invoice or what ever bollocks is just that, makes life all a bit to easy, even for those who have difficulty comprehending a fairly simlple scheme of taxation
Proof of export from a shipper or the post office is acceptable as it's a zero rated export.
Only when a VAT refund is charged is a customs stamp necessary.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:57
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 192
Groaned at 80 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Amanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthyAmanda Portman is considered unworthy
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Quote:
View Post
Actually just ask amazon - before turning it into a complaint - they may not be aware of it or have an explanation.

Let's remember, Switzerland is a bit of a pain in the arse for the EU
Or maybe there is an English Forum in Norway that could be tapped.
Yes, amazon.no also redirects to amazon.de. And based on the responses I received here, not many people in Switzerland order from amazon.de. Besides, it happens only if the seller is not Amazon. That must be why no one reported it earlier. Or no one took the effort to get through the first five responses from the support that companies send you before your case gets to an employee who can read.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 08.04.2019, 17:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,163
Groaned at 16 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 701 Times in 413 Posts
Landers has earned the respect of manyLanders has earned the respect of manyLanders has earned the respect of many
Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

While it may seem unfair, it's clear-ish on the amazon website that the price you see is usually the price you pay and seems to come about by the "computer saying no".



About VAT on Sales by Marketplace Sellers

Your order may include items from one or more Marketplace sellers. Since each of these sellers has different sales tax (or VAT) obligations, all Marketplace prices for orders shipped to delivery addresses within the EU are displayed as final prices indicated by the seller.

For questions about VAT on items purchased from all Marketplace Sellers, please contact the Seller directly.

For Amazon Business customers, you will see VAT exclusive prices for physical goods offers where the seller of record is Amazon and for physical goods offers where the seller has opted to use Amazon's Tax Calculation Service. We will display only VAT inclusive price for physical goods if the seller has not opted to use Amazon's Tax Calculation Service. For questions on VAT in relation to these products, please contact the respective Seller.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it really legal to download in Switzerland? Quebecman TV/internet/telephone 50 28.07.2017 13:17
How easy it is to live someone in Switzerland? Sotiria Daily life 24 16.11.2013 17:58
cancel car insurance if there is a price increase? rob1 Insurance 42 12.06.2012 17:20
Is it possible to live in Switzerland on CHF10K a month ? kdog31 Other/general 52 12.08.2011 10:31
Using bit torrents in Switzerland. Is it legal or not? bobbyrobo TV/internet/telephone 3 23.01.2009 02:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0