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Old 08.04.2019, 06:03
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20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

When I buy something in Germany, and itís not one of the few exceptions, the VAT is 19%.

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/c...vat-rates.html

When I order the same item from Germany to Switzerland, and the seller doesnít want to go to Hell, the following happens:

19% German VAT wonít be added.
8% Swiss VAT will be included.
Customs will be added.

This is what happens, every time when I donít buy it on amazon.de.
This is also what happens when I buy it on amazon.de, and the seller is Amazon (the company).

When I buy it on amazon.de but not from Amazon, the following happens:

1. They sell me the item for the same price as in Germany (with the 19% VAT).
2. I either donít get an invoice, or I get one, and it says, VAT was 0%.
3. I pay the Swiss VAT and the customs.

In other words, they increase the net price with 19%.

When I contact the seller, they tell me that the price was calculated by Amazon. They canít help. I should ask Amazon.

When I contact Amazon, who calculates the correct price for the items they sell, they tell me that the price of the third party seller is not their responsibility. I should ask the seller.

I think itís illegal but I am not sure.

Besides, if itís illegal, I donít know whose responsibility is to fix it retroactively. Itís a lot of money but also a lot of time to go for it one by one.

As far as I can tell, all my amazon.de orders (not sold by Amazon) were like this last year.

Any idea?
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Old 08.04.2019, 06:06
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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When I buy something in Germany, and it’s not one of the few exceptions, the VAT is 19%.

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/c...vat-rates.html

When I order the same item from Germany to Switzerland, and the seller doesn’t want to go to Hell, the following happens:

19% German VAT won’t be added.
8% Swiss VAT will be included.
Customs will be added.

This is what happens, every time when I don’t buy it on amazon.de.
This is also what happens when I buy it on amazon.de, and the seller is Amazon (the company).

When I buy it on amazon.de but not from Amazon, the following happens:

1. They sell me the item for the same price as in Germany (with the 19% VAT).
2. I either don’t get an invoice, or I get one, and it says, VAT was 0%.
3. I pay the Swiss VAT and the customs.

In other words, they increase the net price with 19%.

When I contact the seller, they tell me that the price was calculated by Amazon. They can’t help. I should ask Amazon.

When I contact Amazon, who calculates the correct price for the items they sell, they tell me that the price of the third party seller is not their responsibility. I should ask the seller.

I think it’s illegal but I am not sure.

Besides, if it’s illegal, I don’t know whose responsibility is to fix it retroactively. It’s a lot of money but also a lot of time to go for it one by one.

As far as I can tell, all my amazon.de orders (not sold by Amazon) were like this last year.

Any idea?
Buy in Germany directly and get a Ausfuhrbescheinigung.

Not illegal, just that a lot of sellers canīt be bothered to do what you think is your right.

If it bothers you buy somewhere else?
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Old 08.04.2019, 07:09
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

Maybe buy in Italy again, where you bought your bridal dress mess...
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Old 08.04.2019, 08:19
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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I think it’s illegal but I am not sure.
If you think it's criminally illegal, then tell the police. If you think it's a breach of civil law, then sue the seller.

However, the German seller is under no obligation to deduct the 19% MWST simply because the goods are being exported from the EU. So long as they include it in their MWST return, there's nothing illegal going on. The seller neither benefits nor gains from offering a deduction. The 19% goes to the German MWST office. Find a seller who will deduct German MWST.

Last edited by NotAllThere; 08.04.2019 at 08:31.
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Old 08.04.2019, 08:58
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

There is NO obligation for a vendor to reimburse VAT and a lot can't be arsed to do the paperwork for one sale in a blue moon
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Old 08.04.2019, 12:50
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

This is what Marks & Spencer does on their 'Swiss' website.

Full UK retail price including VAT, converted at a crappy exchange rate, add 8% Swiss VAT and off it goes.

I can't see how it could be illegal as they quote a price, and you accept it.
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Old 08.04.2019, 13:44
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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If you think it's criminally illegal, then tell the police. If you think it's a breach of civil law, then sue the seller.

However, the German seller is under no obligation to deduct the 19% MWST simply because the goods are being exported from the EU. So long as they include it in their MWST return, there's nothing illegal going on. The seller neither benefits nor gains from offering a deduction. The 19% goes to the German MWST office. Find a seller who will deduct German MWST.
I think you donít understand what they do.

The 19% does not go to the German MWST office because there is no VAT on the item.

They increase the price by 19%.
They write 0% VAT on the invoice.
They donít pay anything for the "MWST Office".

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Find a seller who will deduct German MWST.
I know my OP was a bit long to read in one seat. Thatís why I repeat.

More or less every EU seller, from whom I bought anything, did it the correct way (removed the local VAT). Amazon also does it for their own sales.

There are many websites in Germany that already show you the price without the VAT based on your location in Switzerland.

As for the paperwork. Yes, itís a lot of paperwork if the software is not prepared for it.
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Old 08.04.2019, 13:53
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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This is what Marks & Spencer does on their 'Swiss' website.

Full UK retail price including VAT, converted at a crappy exchange rate, add 8% Swiss VAT and off it goes.

I can't see how it could be illegal as they quote a price, and you accept it.
I tell you why I think so.

If I go to a physical store, and the same type of item is on display twice, and it has two prices by accident, the store is obliged to sell it to me on the lower price even if it’s a mistake.

That’s the logic I use here. When I see an item sold in Germany for 1190 EUR final price, its net price is 1000 EUR. From this point, I think they can’t sell it to me for more than 1000 EUR.

As for a correct example, a first site came to my mind was Ableton.

https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/

If you look at it from an EU IP address, the price of the Suite is 599 EUR. If you look at it from Switzerland, the price is 609 CHF.

(In the end, it’s not your IP address that matters but the address you provide. However, it’s great when you see the correct price from the beginning).

This item is 79.9 EUR now on amazon.de.

https://www.amazon.de/Logitech-910-0...oding=UTF8&me=

But if you order it to Switzerland, at the last step, when you pay, it will be about 72 EUR.
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:05
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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I tell you why I think so.

If I go to a physical store, and the same type of item is on display twice, and it has two prices by accident, the store is obliged to sell it to me on the lower price even if itís a mistake.

Thatís the logic I use here. When I see an item sold in Germany for 1190 EUR final price, its net price is 1000 EUR. From this point, I think they canít sell it to me for more than 1000 EUR.

As for a correct example, a first site came to my mind was Ableton.

https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/

If you look at it from an EU IP address, the price of the Suite is 599 EUR. If you look at it from Switzerland, the price is 609 CHF.

(In the end, itís not your IP address that matters but the address you provide. However, itís great when you see the correct price from the beginning).

This item is 79.9 EUR now on amazon.de.

https://www.amazon.de/Logitech-910-0...oding=UTF8&me=

But if you order it to Switzerland, at the last step, when you pay, it will be about 72 EUR.
- A store is under no legal obligation to sell to you at all.

- Different prices for different countries is very normal, have a look at the price tag in your shirt which very often a long ranges of diff prices for diff countries.

- Not charging VAT (Or refunding) is the choice of the store, not yours.

You look for and see problems where there are none.
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:06
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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I think you donít understand what they do.
Nor do you.

They can sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay.

Tom
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:09
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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- Not charging VAT (Or refunding) is the choice of the store, not yours.
This was a funny one. You made my day.
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:15
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

If you buy t-shirts in different countries, itís not the same store.

It can be the same brand. It can be the same company. The stores will be discrete legal and financial entities.

They still sell the same item for the same price for everyone. The two stores have different prices, thatís it.

When you order online to German and to Switzerland, itís the same store. Itís the same legal and financial entity.
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:18
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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Besides, if it’s illegal, I don’t know whose responsibility is to fix it retroactively. It’s a lot of money but also a lot of time to go for it one by one.

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This item is 79.9 EUR now on amazon.de.

https://www.amazon.de/Logitech-910-0...oding=UTF8&me=

But if you order it to Switzerland, at the last step, when you pay, it will be about 72 EUR.
Are you talking about an amount of EUR 7.90 in lost VAT?

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Any idea?
Don't shop at Amazon any more?
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:20
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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This was a funny one. You made my day.
You must be a troll.
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:20
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

In short, it's perfectly legal.

Next question please!

Tom
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:20
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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You must be a troll.
No!

Tom
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:21
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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You must be a troll.
Read the story on not giving access to the landlord?
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:25
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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Read the story on not giving access to the landlord?
Oh yeah, I remembered that one. (Who doesn't)
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:26
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

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I tell you why I think so.

If I go to a physical store, and the same type of item is on display twice, and it has two prices by accident, the store is obliged to sell it to me on the lower price even if itís a mistake.
Nonsense. There is no such obligation under Swiss or EU law.

As to the rest of the thread - Why do you ask questions if you're only going to disagree with all the answers? It's been pointed out that there is no way in which this could be 'illegal', which is what you were asking, so if you think you know better all I can suggest is that you stop asking damn-fool questions.
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Old 08.04.2019, 14:32
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Re: 20% price increase because I live in Switzerland. Is it legal?

I do wonder how some people manage to function day in day out without considerable outside help.

care to share op?
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