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Old 15.05.2019, 14:49
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Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Hi, All,

I need guidance. Anyone familiar with the hiring steps for this position? (I don't know how it's called in French/Italian.)

Can someone point me to the English version of the contract? I'm trying to figure out how to do it, what my obligations and responsibilities are, how to invoice, or keep track of work time. I need a person, too, but I'll look for that later, once I understand the process.

Thank you.
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Old 15.05.2019, 16:57
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Hi Funnybone,

Your IV Stelle should be able to advise you on this, and be actively involved - is this not happening?
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Old 15.05.2019, 17:15
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

This link contains a sample work contract for employing a domestc aide (Arbeitsvertrag (Vorlage BSV und FAssiS)):

https://www.assistenzbuero.ch/de/ratgeber/unterlagen


The webpage at this link is also informative:

https://www.proinfirmis.ch/behindert...sistenten.html
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Old 15.05.2019, 17:15
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

You might want to contact Doropfiz as she seems to be very knowledgeable.
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Old 15.05.2019, 17:45
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

ZuriRollt, in our case, the communication isn't going too smoothly, in the sense that it isn't reaching us (so pretty much non-existent). It seems that we could have had a helper the whole last year, but only now we've been informed that we could have/have been approved. Who is this IV Stelle who's supposed to help us? Again something new that I'm learning, and have some digging to do.

Roegner, I sometimes feel like I monopolize Doropfiz's knowledge in such matters so much so that I wanted to ask the whole of EF this time around.

Mullhollander, thanks for the links.

There's something to be said about a glimpse of hope of getting a bit of a break.
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Old 16.05.2019, 01:25
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Www.assistenzforum.ch
no longer seems to have a lot of traffic, but there's a lot of info there.

For the measurement instrument which is used (at least, a version from 2015.... not sure whether it's since been modified) to assess the number of minutes (!) of assistance to be awarded, see http://assistenzforum.ch/viewtopic.p...1e32b3c7f14309. The assessment tool is called FAKT, but seems to have less to do with the facts as to do with the past tense of an expletive.
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Old 03.06.2019, 06:05
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

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Hi Funnybone,

Your IV Stelle should be able to advise you on this, and be actively involved - is this not happening?
OP, the IV-Stelle, to which ZuriRollt refers, is the contact office which deals with disability pensions, the so-called "helplessness compensation" and the "assistance contributions" which are what you've now been granted to pay the hourly wages of personal assistants to the disabled person.

In theory, they are your friend and helper.

They are, however, part of the SVA (Sozialversicherungsanstalt) which has - through the past few national votes on the topic - the official mandate to CUT THE COSTS of supporting persons who have disabilities.

It follows that in practice, the focus of the IV-Stelle is NOT offering advice and certainly not becoming actively involved (other than to reimburse the wages you will first have to pay out of your own pocket).

It is tragic but true that every Franc you are unable to claim because you couldn't manage to figure out the complexities of the system... gets totted up as a further success of the IV-Stelle.

Later, when we read in the media that the IV-Stelle has reduced some of its spending, let us not forget that drowning in that statistic are the disabled persons who are too ill-informed or simply too ill to claim the benefits to which they are eligible, or to utilise them once they've been awarded.
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Old 03.06.2019, 10:27
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

We are going through what Doropfiz so aptly described above. Not only were we made aware of the assitenzbeitrag 8 months late, we can't seem to get a hold of anyone (like a case manage, for example) who could answer questions r help with paperwork either. Lots of phone calls went either unanswered, or to someone who couldn't help because they don't handle our case.

It does look like we are part of a cost cutting scheme. By the way things are going, a(nother) year could easily pass - it takes a year to become eligible (in hopes that one dies before eligibility? I don't know.) I guess another way of cutting costs is to tell us that some paperwork wasn't properly set up, and we could end up with the whole "awarded amount" deemed "unreimbursable". I could see that happening.

This is in Aargau, if anyone is curious.
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Old 16.06.2019, 04:35
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Here is a service which looks quite good, to help recipients of "Assistance Contributions" (Assistenzbeiträge) set up the paperwork and run the system.

The laws on Assistenzbeiträge are federal, but the implementation is cantonal. You'd have to check whether this small businesses is able to do it according to the rules of your canton.

https://www.you-are-never-alone.ch/dienstleistung/

https://www.you-are-never-alone.ch/g%C3%A4stebuch/


Disclaimer:
I found this service online. I don't know anything about it other than what I've read on the site, nor any of the people.
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Old 17.06.2019, 01:14
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Thank you for the links, Doropfiz.

Wouldn't you know it? The fat cats have figured out (or they themselves set up the system from the beginning) how to milk the IV/SVA system. Our case was awarded 20 lawyer hours to set up a work contract. I've been crazy mad at the system these past few days (when I wasn't down with my stupid migraine)! Should it be THAT difficult to hire someone? If so, why would a system designed to help handicapped people (in some cases mentally, too) make it so hard that it requires lawyers to fill out forms to access services? What do those who are less informed do? (Not that being informed helps a ton, especially when the information/decision isn't passed along, so more like kept in the dark.)

I'm thinking that now my thread fits better in the complaints corner.
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Old 17.06.2019, 01:49
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

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What do those who are less informed do? (Not that being informed helps a ton, especially when the information/decision isn't passed along, so more like kept in the dark.)
Out of interest how good is your German? Are you able to fully comprehend all the documentation that is available?
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Old 17.06.2019, 17:48
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Hi, Jim2007,

How is your question relevant? Unlike whatever the latest percentage of people living in CH who can't speak a local language currently is, half of my family is native Swiss, all of us highly educated, however I don't think that should bear any weight when wanting to access information (for example a standard hiring form). Are you saying that it is OK to make matters so complex such that one must use a lawyer? This approach is exclusivist, and if all applicants must use one, then the country isn't producing enough of them. Those who are intimidated by a system like this would never go so far as to ask or even know to ask despite paying for these services all their working lives. Do you honestly believe this is an inclusive system?

We are diverging here - my complaint was that the services have been delayed for 10 months so far, and it looks like it will take longer. The honeypot incurs serious expenses, and they aren't going to the person in need. For example, do you know how much an electric wheelchair is? Now guess how much we are charged to "rent" it (leihbasis) - use it until no longer needed and then return it to SAHB/IV pool of equipment (and I bet the price is set because "IV pays for it").
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Old 18.06.2019, 06:38
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Hang in there. It seems to be official policy to delay decisions as this saves money due to those who give up. Any award should be backdated. Have you looked at buying an electric scooter? Some of the sit on models look like a possible substitute for a wheelchair.
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Old 18.06.2019, 11:19
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

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How is your question relevant?
The question is very relevant because your first post asked to be directed to an ENGLISH version of the contract..

And your response to my question turn into a tangent on entitlement and an expectation to be provided with information regardless of language, when there is no responsibility to provide documentation in anything other than the national languages.

And in the end you never answered the simple question - do you or do you not speak German to a level that enables you to fully understand the documentation that is provided. It’s a very simple yes or no question.
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Old 18.06.2019, 12:10
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Naturally, in this (like any aspect of life) it can help to have a good chance command of the local language. From my observation, however I can testify to the bitter fact that local, born-and-bred medical and legal professionals struggle with the rules around Assistenz.
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Old 27.06.2019, 23:39
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Here's an organisation offering courses for recipients of Assistenzbeiträge to learn how to be an employer. Yes, that's right, getting Assistenzbeiträge forces all the duties of being an employer onto the disabled person.

https://www.vereinigung-cerebral.ch/...-und-lausanne/

First the person is classified as "disabled" (unable to work to earn their own living).
Then, they can apply for extra insurance benefits called Hilflosenentschädigung (helplessness-compensation).
Being a recipient of both a disability pension, and helplessness-compensation are PRE-REQUISITE to applying for Assistenzbeiträge (assistance contributions).

Once the person is disabled, helpless and in need of assistance, the only way to obtain this benefit, the Assistenzbeitrag, to finance the wages of the assistants, is to become an employer.

This is the full whammy, where the person who is already very unwell is forced to take on all the responsibilities of an employer, including drawing up a legal contract, paying in the employee's social security contributions, bi-annually in advance and then settling up at the end of the year according to the actual pay-roll, buying their accident insurance cover and, if one employs anyone with a B-permit or less, deducting their source tax and paying it to the tax authorities, providing the employees with a monthly pay-slip reflecting all deductions and adding leave-pay separately from the wage, and an annual summary of earnings for their tax purposes.. It's an absurd amount of administration for someone who already has severe health impairments!
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Old 28.06.2019, 23:49
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

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The question is very relevant because your first post asked to be directed to an ENGLISH version of the contract..

And your response to my question turn into a tangent on entitlement and an expectation to be provided with information regardless of language, when there is no responsibility to provide documentation in anything other than the national languages.

And in the end you never answered the simple question - do you or do you not speak German to a level that enables you to fully understand the documentation that is provided. It’s a very simple yes or no question.
Yada, yada, entitlement, yada, yada, expectations. We most definitely have different definitions of these terms. While I do expect things to work in Switzerland like the train system (timely, but with AC and proper access for those with mobility impairments), I personally don't feel entitled to any more than what is touted to be available.

Simply put, there is plentiful legal and non-legal info made available in English, one place often suggested here being ch dot ch, so I didn't think I was asking something out of the ordinary, or special/or full of entitlement - after all, since aging is part of life, and some of us will be sick during our lives, my question of if, what, and where one could find info regarding accessing services for the sick, yes, including work contracts, was quite pertinent to wanting to fully (or as close to fully) understand the situation. I'm of the opinion that more minds are better than one, and between several native speakers AND one English, we are sure to understand and follow the very narrow path of filling out the (gazillions of) forms, and now contracts, ACCURATELY.

I have a sample of a work contract between a construction "company" and one of their (imported) workers, and I have to say, some get away with a one-page (double spaced, too, I think) work contract in broken German (guess who's building around the airport, and those are huge contracts!), and some, on their sick bed, have to write in perfect legalese. Possibly I, too, could apply AND obtain an L-permit employee this way then?!

Alas, I was wrong in my expectations, and doropfiz right again! A perfect command of German (in our case) isn't enough, it has to be legal-jargon perfect, too. It is ridiculous what is asked of sick people! On the upside, things are, albeit slowly, moving along. [insert a happy snail emoji]
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Old 29.06.2019, 00:28
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

Not that long ago it was said on this forum "You’re living in a country where common sense prevails."
I did not agree, but I got rebuffed.
Now just wondering how many such non-sense stories like this they (the guys who groaned at me) need...
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Old 29.06.2019, 01:18
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

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The question is very relevant because your first post asked to be directed to an ENGLISH version of the contract..

And your response to my question turn into a tangent on entitlement and an expectation to be provided with information regardless of language, when there is no responsibility to provide documentation in anything other than the national languages.

And in the end you never answered the simple question - do you or do you not speak German to a level that enables you to fully understand the documentation that is provided. It’s a very simple yes or no question.
I think the OP is sick to the back teeth with the whole process and while I also feel his response went down an unpleasant track, I fully empathise with where the reaction is coming from.

A family member of mine recently got themselves into a bit of a sticky situation, I offered to help because my German and ability to ask for stuff is better than theirs but I had to tap out after 5 days (!) of tedious back and forth in addition to providing practical help AND having busy season at work. It's exhausting and infuriating, seemingly purposefully fragmented and with not enough resources available to go round.

As for lawyers taking ten hours to draft a contract that is hardly unique in nature - bollocks to that, it hacks me off that social services is increasingly becoming an industry with more and more money going to upholding its own employees rather than those in need. If a specialist lawyer can't get that done in under two hours based on a needs assessment, he show go and run a surf shack on the Australian Gold Coast instead.
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Old 29.06.2019, 01:35
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Re: Assistenzbeitrag - domestic helper based on IV

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I think the OP is sick to the back teeth with the whole process and while I also feel his response went down an unpleasant track, I fully empathise with where the reaction is coming from.

A family member of mine recently got themselves into a bit of a sticky situation, I offered to help because my German and ability to ask for stuff is better than theirs but I had to tap out after 5 days (!) of tedious back and forth in addition to providing practical help AND having busy season at work. It's exhausting and infuriating, seemingly purposefully fragmented and with not enough resources available to go round.
Thank you, Kittster, for understanding. You helped for 5 tedious and infuriating days. And I undertsand that you just can't sustain that, having many other commitments. In one case I know, this has now been going on for 6 years! Backwards and forwards, documentation, reports, on and on, with not enough resources for the person who is ill, as the system seems to make the whole matter exactly what you said: "seemingly purposefully fragmented".

In cases in which there simply are no family member to pick up part of the tab, financially or in time and effort, the decline is the more desperate.
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