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Old 01.10.2019, 08:40
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Rotkreuz or Luzern?

Hi Everybody,

I'm new here. I got a job in Luzern for starting in 2020 and my question is: should I live in Luzern or Canton Zug?

For me it will be a difference of 1000CHF per month on income taxes. Does this worth the commuting? How is living for instance in Rotkreuz or Baar? Can I go out easily to Zürich or Luzern?

I've noticed there less house options in Canton Zug compared to Luzern.

I will be alone and very often during the weekends I'll be in Germany visiting my kids as I'm divorced.

Many thanks for your tips and suggestions
Best regards,
Antonio
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Old 01.10.2019, 10:39
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

Rotkreuz is pretty close to Luzern, so commute time should not be an issue. Baar is perhaps another 10/15 minutes further.

Luzern is a beautiful city, but tax rates are quite high, Rotkreuz is really more of a village/suburb so the decision is really based around where you want to live and the finances once accommodation and tax is considered.

Probably, for the commute, the furthest I would go is Zug City.
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Old 01.10.2019, 12:18
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

Hi Nicky, thank you very much for your reply.

Well I would prefer to live in the city as I'm alone but with that difference in taxes I can buy a train pass, travel to Lucern, Zürich and have some drink and watch some jazz concerts

From looking at the google maps (never been in the area) it seems like Rotkreuz and Baar have the best train connections to both cities isn't?
Apartment prices seem also similar to Lucern while Zug, etc seem way more expensive.

Is there another disadvantage of Rotkreuz and Baar compared to Lucern apart being theoretically more boring?

Many thanks in advantage,
Antonio
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Old 01.10.2019, 14:32
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

What type of work permit do you have? If it is B, you will have some difficulties living in another canton than Lucerne.

Otherwise, Baar, Zug, Cham or Rotkreuz will be fine from logistics. Cham is a bit more difficult as IR trains don't stop there, so only S1 to Lucerne.
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Old 01.10.2019, 14:43
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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What type of work permit do you have? If it is B, you will have some difficulties living in another canton than Lucerne.
Has less to do with permit than with nationality. As he is Portuguese he can live in any canton w/o restriction like any other EU/EFTA national.
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...r_schweiz.html further information in FAQ and Factsheets
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Old 01.10.2019, 14:44
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

Advantage Lucerne/LU:
  • Rent is lower
  • Less commuting
  • More cultural stuff going on (festivals, carnival, KKL and so on)

Advantage Rotkreuz/ZG:
  • Tax
  • Closer to Zurich (Airport, job in the future?)
  • Crime rate is very low (seriously)*
  • Not full of tourist crowds
  • Not loud as Lucerne
  • Nice people, like living in a small village


* crime rate is so low, the cantonal police has nothing else to do than investigate crimes like these
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Old 01.10.2019, 14:52
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

As mentioned, Luzern is more vibrant and perhaps, based on your circumstances might be a better choice. Once the cheaper accommodation is factored in I'm not sure there will be a huge difference, compared to the cheaper tax localities.

Unless you are on a huge salary, that is!

I have a young family, so the suburban benefits of living in a Zug village is a real draw. (As is access to the lake)
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Old 01.10.2019, 15:07
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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Is there another disadvantage of Rotkreuz and Baar compared to Lucern apart being theoretically more boring?
I would visit Rotkreuz before deciding to move there. Seriously.

There are some nice villages and areas around Rotkreuz such as Buonas and Holzhäusern but the place itself is pretty soulless. The town square is an empty bit of concrete bordered by an old-people's home, a small Spar supermarket and the bus station. Quaint, it ain't.
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Old 01.10.2019, 15:38
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

Just as a rule of thumb, if you are looking at any area within the canton of Zug it's best to think of them as suburbs, some larger, some really small. Actually, come to think of it, this is true for most cantons around here.

If you want a bit of nightlife and culture, then Luzern is the way to go. Zug is great in the Summer (Mainly for all the outdoors stuff happening, but a bit dull in Winter. Part of the great standard of living here is not having long travel distances and I would really advise keeping this low if you can. (It makes a huge difference)

Have you thought about Weggis? Super cheap rent, the best views I have seen, great hotels, spas and a nice villagy feel. About 30 minutes to Luzern, but boy, if I could....
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Old 01.10.2019, 16:58
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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I would visit Rotkreuz before deciding to move there. Seriously.

There are some nice villages and areas around Rotkreuz such as Buonas and Holzhäusern but the place itself is pretty soulless. The town square is an empty bit of concrete bordered by an old-people's home, a small Spar supermarket and the bus station. Quaint, it ain't.
I mean besides the normal-sized Spar, there is a relatively large Migros, a relatively large Coop as well as a Denner. They are also going to entirely change the area near the train station in the coming years (https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentr...ben-ld.1077480.), so I wouldn't call your description totally accurate.

The Suurstoffi areal has entirely transformed Rotkreuz in the last 4 years. It's full of young(er) expat and Swiss families. They just opened up the Luzern University of Applied Sciences campus for ~1'500 students in September. The surroundings are very nicely kept with gardens, flower arrangements and fountains by Zug Estates (the same guys who own Metalli in Zug), and they've finished the first "Gartenhochhaus" project in Switzerland, called Aglaya. It's the fastest growing Gemeinde in the canton for a reason.

One of the biggest advantages is also the transport connections, and the flexibility this would give you for future potential job searching. The train to Luzern takes 14 minutes, to Zurich 35. Direct trains also run throughout the night on weekends if you stay out late.

Although rent is cheaper in Rotkreuz than in Zug, odds are that you will have a tough time apartment hunting - https://www.zentralplus.ch/selbstver...kreuz-1615171/

I have lived in gemeinde Risch-Rotkreuz for the last 7 years, and can whole-heartedly recommend it.
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Old 01.10.2019, 17:09
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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As mentioned, Luzern is more vibrant and perhaps, based on your circumstances might be a better choice. Once the cheaper accommodation is factored in I'm not sure there will be a huge difference, compared to the cheaper tax localities.

Unless you are on a huge salary, that is!

I have a young family, so the suburban benefits of living in a Zug village is a real draw. (As is access to the lake)
I used comparis.ch and the difference in Tax is 1000 Chf per month... That's the only thing at the moment that stops me to decide for Luzern.
But maybe the best is visiting the area. As I'm in Heerbrugg (East-Switzerland) I need to take at least a day to do it.
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Old 01.10.2019, 17:14
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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I mean besides the normal-sized Spar, there is a relatively large Migros, a relatively large Coop as well as a Denner. They are also going to entirely change the area near the train station in the coming years (https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentr...ben-ld.1077480.), so I wouldn't call your description totally accurate.
I was describing the town square - now and not what it will be like in a few years. I've seen those plans too. Not particularly impressed.

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and they've finished the first "Gartenhochhaus" project in Switzerland, called Aglaya.
.
The first time I walked passed that now people have moved in, and the plants are growing, it reminded me of one thing only - the tower blocks in the city of Pripyat, present day, 30 years after Chernobyl. Plain grey concrete with a few plants is not a good look.

Some people must like it though - I know a few people that have moved in there.

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It's the fastest growing Gemeinde in the canton for a reason.
.
I think that's because there's not much room to expand in Zug etc and land for developers is still relatively cheap (compared with the rest of the Kanton).

Excellent transport connections though.
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Old 01.10.2019, 17:17
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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I would visit Rotkreuz before deciding to move there. Seriously.

There are some nice villages and areas around Rotkreuz such as Buonas and Holzhäusern but the place itself is pretty soulless. The town square is an empty bit of concrete bordered by an old-people's home, a small Spar supermarket and the bus station. Quaint, it ain't.
Yes that's a very important point, thanks. I need to take a weekend to visit the area as I'm in East-Switzerland at the moment.

I just checked that between Luzern, and Zürich and Rotkreuz there is no good train after midnight? I love Jazz and World music and I'm dreaming about going out very often to Moods bar in Zürich for instance? They have amazing concerts even during the week
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Old 01.10.2019, 17:46
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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I was describing the town square - now and not what it will be like in a few years. I've seen those plans too. Not particularly impressed.
What you were describing is not what the town square looks like now, which was my point.


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The first time I walked passed that now people have moved in, and the plants are growing, it reminded me of one thing only - the tower blocks in the city of Pripyat, present day, 30 years after Chernobyl. Plain grey concrete with a few plants is not a good look.
People have not moved in, the building isn't opened for use yet. The building looks fantastic in my opinion (and from what I've heard, it's already completely sold out, so others must share my view). I'd rather have the gardens/glass/concrete mix which they've gone for than the 100% glass look.

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I think that's because there's not much room to expand in Zug etc and land for developers is still relatively cheap (compared with the rest of the Kanton).

Excellent transport connections though.
Land costs are definitely part of it. Another huge influence is the expansion of the Roche Diagnostics headquarter. They are the largest employer in Canton Zug.
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Old 01.10.2019, 17:51
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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Yes that's a very important point, thanks. I need to take a weekend to visit the area as I'm in East-Switzerland at the moment.

I just checked that between Luzern, and Zürich and Rotkreuz there is no good train after midnight? I love Jazz and World music and I'm dreaming about going out very often to Moods bar in Zürich for instance? They have amazing concerts even during the week
There are direct hourly trains past 00:00 on Fridays and Saturdays (Sat morning/ Sun morning).
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Old 01.10.2019, 20:12
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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People have not moved in, the building isn't opened for use yet. The building looks fantastic in my opinion (and from what I've heard, it's already completely sold out, so others must share my view). I'd rather have the gardens/glass/concrete mix which they've gone for than the 100% glass look.
.

This is all quite subjective. We all have different tastes.

That's why I suggested the OP looks for himself.
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Old 01.10.2019, 22:36
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Re: Rotkreuz or Luzern?

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I mean besides the normal-sized Spar, there is a relatively large Migros, a relatively large Coop as well as a Denner. They are also going to entirely change the area near the train station in the coming years (https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentr...ben-ld.1077480.), so I wouldn't call your description totally accurate.

The Suurstoffi areal has entirely transformed Rotkreuz in the last 4 years. It's full of young(er) expat and Swiss families. They just opened up the Luzern University of Applied Sciences campus for ~1'500 students in September. The surroundings are very nicely kept with gardens, flower arrangements and fountains by Zug Estates (the same guys who own Metalli in Zug), and they've finished the first "Gartenhochhaus" project in Switzerland, called Aglaya. It's the fastest growing Gemeinde in the canton for a reason.

One of the biggest advantages is also the transport connections, and the flexibility this would give you for future potential job searching. The train to Luzern takes 14 minutes, to Zurich 35. Direct trains also run throughout the night on weekends if you stay out late.

Although rent is cheaper in Rotkreuz than in Zug, odds are that you will have a tough time apartment hunting - https://www.zentralplus.ch/selbstver...kreuz-1615171/

I have lived in gemeinde Risch-Rotkreuz for the last 7 years, and can whole-heartedly recommend it.

This sounds very promising, thanks a lot baylout. Even if I'm alone it seems the best option for me. With the extra money I can invest in a Train pass that will take me anywhere in Switzerland, I also like nature, mtb, roadcycling, motorcycle, windsurf, trailrunning etc. Going out for music or a drink seems a good option too as it seats between Luzern and Zürich.
Ok I still have time till January but I'm looking foward to visit Rotkreuz and surrounding in the next weeks.

Thank you so much everybody, this forum is the best! I tried to get some feeback in several forums (inc.portuguese one) but only here I really got help. BIG THANKS :-) Cheers
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