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  #2141  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, they just want to stop it. If you don’t visit your 80 year old parents, they won’t catch it from you.

I’m astounded by the above statistics suggesting that all the deaths were people over 50!
my friend's grandparent lives in an altersheim, they stopped visitors and I heard some old people say they'd rather die than to suffer from loniness : - (
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  #2142  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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my friend's grandparent lives in an altersheim, they stopped visitors and I heard some old people say they'd rather die than to suffer from loniness : - (
How can one be lonely in an "altersheim" full of residents and staff?
For most old people it is a life saver.
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  #2143  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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We trust the Swiss authorities? ... ?
Still better than the Dutch authorities.

No need for further measurements and everybody can keep on visiting concerts and football since we don't need symbolic-politics.
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  #2144  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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How can one be lonely in an "altersheim" full of residents and staff?
For most old people it is a life saver.
Maybe they meant if they were isolated due to being quarantined?
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  #2145  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Italy now expanding travel restrictions nationwide.

There must be more going on health wise than has been made public.
Is hundreds of dead people and 650 in critical condition and a collapsed healthcare system not enough reason?

What more would you want before a total lock-down is justified?
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  #2146  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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So what to make of this interview? If the Canton of Zurich are only testing those over 65 and those with pre-existing conditions which warrant testing, then I would deduce that those numbers for the Canton of Zurich do not accurately reflect those infected with the COVID-19.
That's pretty much a given as it's likely not practical to test everyone who chooses to home isolate when they develop the symptoms. Quite a few pages ago now, we talked about who would be the priorities for testing and for the vaccine when one does become available. https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...ml#post3152930
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Average age of corona death in Italy is 81.7 yrs old. They have the second oldest population on earth which partly explains the shit they are now in.
Understandably, there a lot of attention on the age of these people and not as much on the other factors.

Today I've been reading the very controlled words of an oncologist in Venice. I've also seen two doctors, a professor of bacteriology and a virologist on tv giving advice, only for the UK government to willfully ignore it. The venom coming from medical professions towards the powers that be right now is astonishing.
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  #2147  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is hundreds of dead people and 650 in critical condition and a collapsed healthcare system not enough reason?
Plus they know the health care system in the south of the country just isn't geared up for this. If the wealthy industrial north is struggling...
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  #2148  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Plus they know the health care system in the south of the country just isn't geared up for this. If the wealthy industrial north is struggling...
What saddens me to no end is they knew since December last year what's going on in China. They knew. I don't mean only the Italians. They didn't take rapid measures for different reasons, one of them, I think, was some sort of naivety that all this thing is going away by itself and the nice weather will come etc etc.
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Old 09.03.2020, 23:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Plus they know the health care system in the south of the country just isn't geared up for this. If the wealthy industrial north is struggling...
Difference between north and south is huge, if the south gets the same numbers they are screwed in a way that makes the north look like a good place to be.

And amazing to see how the rest of Europe is doing what seems to be little while having the fingers crossed that "it will not be so bad here" "We are well prepared" etc etc.. Italy hardly had any time to prepare, the rest of Europe is absolutely not paying proper attention to this. And the EU? Anybody heard anything from the EU lately? Shows how the EU is bankrupt, the moment it matters they just hide behind the curtain till the show is over.
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  #2150  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:54
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Re: Coronavirus

My 82 year old brother has just gone in today for a knee replacement yesterday- I hope we can visit him soon. He is definitely not 'elderly'

A young friend in the UK thinks it is Johnson's and Cumming's policy to get rid of those pesky, expensive oldies- and solve the problem of shortages of cheap foreign care staff. Cynical - oh yes- but wouldn't put it past them.
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  #2151  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is hundreds of dead people and 650 in critical condition and a collapsed healthcare system not enough reason?

What more would you want before a total lock-down is justified?
It’s not enough when you are talking about a population of 60 million people. And there has not been any indication that the health care system has collapsed. Strained, overloaded, at capacity in some areas. Yes. No information I’ve seen indicates a collapse. They’d begun more aggressive triage measures just within the past days.

What I would want is an explanation of why the current measures were inadequate and what has changed their planning within the past week. Also, what additional measures will be considered if the situation continues to worsen.

My feeling is that things are worse than has been publicly acknowledged. Perhaps with a larger number of younger patients than expected. People seem content to explain the early numbers away based on Italy’s “old” population.
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  #2152  
Old 09.03.2020, 23:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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So what to make of this interview? If the Canton of Zurich are only testing those over 65 and those with pre-existing conditions which warrant testing, then I would deduce that those numbers for the Canton of Zurich do not accurately reflect those infected with the COVID-19.

Do they lack the resources/tests to assess all who claim to be infected or those who have symptoms of infection or do they believe resources should be allocated to those who are most risk of death and the others will probably recover?

I was suprised at this statement too. At this point we still don't know all the reasons. I can't unfairly compare to us here in SG as we have been dealing with this at least 5 weeks longer.

But maybe they stated they are only testing 65+ because if you know you aren't eligible to get tested, you won't go to the doctors unnecessarily.
If you have mild or even no symptoms, chances are you'll either be fine or don't even have it? At the doctor's office, there's a higher chance of getting infected.
or there really is not enough testing capabilty in Switzerland to test everyone?
I hope these questions get clarified over the next few days.
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  #2153  
Old 10.03.2020, 00:05
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Re: Coronavirus

Some days ago they published already that they only would test those with symptoms and of high-risk (like has been in Northern Italy), or with severe symptoms and in need already of medical care.

Earlier they would test for example a lot of people you've been in direct contact with if you had Corona, now they just tell them to stay at home and self-quirantaine and give a call when medical assistance is needed.

Amount of tests that can be performed is limited, but we should not forget that this might make the numbers look better than they would have been with wider testing.
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Old 10.03.2020, 00:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's pretty much a given as it's likely not practical to test everyone who chooses to home isolate when they develop the symptoms. Quite a few pages ago now, we talked about who would be the priorities for testing and for the vaccine when one does become available. https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...ml#post3152930
Understandably, there a lot of attention on the age of these people and not as much on the other factors.

Today I've been reading the very controlled words of an oncologist in Venice. I've also seen two doctors, a professor of bacteriology and a virologist on tv giving advice, only for the UK government to willfully ignore it. The venom coming from medical professions towards the powers that be right now is astonishing.
Yes I read, acknowledged and thanked your post but that was well before an official statement from the Zurich canton was made
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  #2155  
Old 10.03.2020, 00:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some days ago they published already that they only would test those with symptoms and of high-risk (like has been in Northern Italy), or with severe symptoms and in need already of medical care.

Earlier they would test for example a lot of people you've been in direct contact with if you had Corona, now they just tell them to stay at home and self-quirantaine and give a call when medical assistance is needed.

Amount of tests that can be performed is limited, but we should not forget that this might make the numbers look better than they would have been with wider testing.

true but less testing makes the death rate appear higher. IMO I am all for testing as much as possible. Look at S.korea. They are fantastic at their testing. but like i said, I am not one to judge what the BAG and Swiss authorities are doing. I only hope for transparency and that the information flow is kept open.
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  #2156  
Old 10.03.2020, 00:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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It’s not enough when you are talking about a population of 60 million people. And there has not been any indication that the health care system has collapsed. Strained, overloaded, at capacity in some areas. Yes. No information I’ve seen indicates a collapse. They’d begun more aggressive triage measures just within the past days.

What I would want is an explanation of why the current measures were inadequate and what has changed their planning within the past week. Also, what additional measures will be considered if the situation continues to worsen.

My feeling is that things are worse than has been publicly acknowledged. Perhaps with a larger number of younger patients than expected. People seem content to explain the early numbers away based on Italy’s “old” population.
So you admit the healthcare system is Strained, overloaded and they begun more aggressive triage, but you do not consider such health care system as having collapsed? What on earth would according to you define a collapsed system if not the current Italian one?
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Old 10.03.2020, 00:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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true but less testing makes the death rate appear higher.
Only a statistic thing which never would be correct anyway, even testing your whole population today would not change that since the amount of infected already be different tomorrow.
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  #2158  
Old 10.03.2020, 00:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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A young friend in the UK thinks it is Johnson's and Cumming's policy to get rid of those pesky, expensive oldies- and solve the problem of shortages of cheap foreign care staff. Cynical - oh yes- but wouldn't put it past them.
This clip from the PM's interview on 'This Morning' last Friday (I believe), is causing a lot af anger towards him and the cabinet and largely from the medical profession. It's frankly horrific to think of, let alone seriously consider and speak out loud on national tv.

https://twitter.com/johnrobb/status/1237051628152410113
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Old 10.03.2020, 00:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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This clip from the PM's interview on 'This Morning' last Friday (I believe), is causing a lot af anger towards him and the cabinet and largely from the medical profession. It's frankly horrific to think of, let alone seriously consider and speak out loud on national tv.

https://twitter.com/johnrobb/status/1237051628152410113
Wow. It looks like he's even jubilating at the thought of the virus "just moving through Britain". He's living in a highly protected environment and will have the best staff at his disposal so to hell with all those peasants! Pfui.
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Old 10.03.2020, 00:35
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Re: Coronavirus

Corona / Amerika

Pence and a bunch of other important people starting press briefing the moment I post this.

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