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  #22521  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Whereas the UK has already given over 11 MILLION people the AZ vaccine alone, which is more than the rest of Europe combined with no reported side effects of clotting whatsoever.
That is, of course, absolute nonsense. In a sample that large, there would be a probability of almost 1 that at least one person would develop blood clotting issues and indeed AstraZeneca themselves issued a press release on 14 March stating:

"So far across the EU and UK, there have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among those given the vaccine, based on the number of cases the Company has received as of 8 March. This is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar across other licensed COVID-19 vaccines."

As most people have been saying here, the incidences of blood clotting with all of the vaccines has been vanishingly low and there is no evidence to attribute these cases to the vaccines. It is even claimed that the incidence of clotting is lower than expected (according to historical data) for people vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.
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  #22522  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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The only reason AZ has a poor reputation is through terrible reporting and misinformation spread by certain European politicians and parts of the media. NOWHERE is this founded in truth or science!
This is exactly what is happening now — the search for answers to explain several serious cases of side effects. Science is the process, and not some kind enlightenment which so-called experts bring to us on the TV talk shows. The issue will be investigated and hopefully corrected.
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  #22523  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am in age group 40-49. Looking at BAG data, in my age group the risk of dying from Covid is 0.04%. The AZ death-from-blood-clots risk according to some German data is 1 out of 250.000, so that is 0.0004%. My chances of dying from Covid hence are 100 times higher than from AZ.
This could be a local issue with vaccines, some kind of production error in a certain production line, so overall numbers might mean nothing— like the average body temperature in the hospital.
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Old 16.03.2021, 13:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is, of course, absolute nonsense. In a sample that large, there would be a probability of almost 1 that at least one person would develop blood clotting issues and indeed AstraZeneca themselves issued a press release on 14 March stating:

"So far across the EU and UK, there have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among those given the vaccine, based on the number of cases the Company has received as of 8 March. This is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar across other licensed COVID-19 vaccines."

As most people have been saying here, the incidences of blood clotting with all of the vaccines has been vanishingly low and there is no evidence to attribute these cases to the vaccines. It is even claimed that the incidence of clotting is lower than expected (according to historical data) for people vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.
You say 'complete nonsense' to my post and then quote confirmation of exactly what I said - that in the UK there have been no SIDE EFFECT of clotting issues caused by the vaccine.

I didnt say there had been zero people with clots just that they didn't increase by mass vaccine use of the AZ vaccine.
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Old 16.03.2021, 13:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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As most people have been saying here, the incidences of blood clotting with all of the vaccines has been vanishingly low and there is no evidence to attribute these cases to the vaccines. It is even claimed that the incidence of clotting is lower than expected (according to historical data) for people vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.
AZ not only protects from COVID but from blood clotting too.

I saw this on FB & was amused
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  #22526  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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But you wouldn't like your healthy 35 yo son/daughter to be in this dozen, right? It's only OK when it happens with someone far away in Norway.

I think it's completely right that they stopped vaccination. AZ had poor reputation anyway and the reports about illnesses and deaths without any reaction from government wouldn't increase trust in this vaccine. Maybe there is a problem with a single batch indeed, but it all needs thorough investigation.
Pfizer has exactly same issues reported: blood complications. why ts so quiet about Pfizer f.ex?
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  #22527  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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This could be a local issue with vaccines, some kind of production error in a certain production line, so overall numbers might mean nothing— like the average body temperature in the hospital.
LOL, what a thing to wonder about.
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  #22528  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Exactly, there could be a problem with production, and certain batches are affected. It could be a local issue, and the investigation hopefully show it.
or can be even a sabotage
we are heard about some doctors sabotaged vaccines in US
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Old 16.03.2021, 13:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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I saw this on FB & was amused
dishwashers issues after AZ jab is worrying
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  #22530  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:51
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You say 'complete nonsense' to my post and then quote confirmation of exactly what I said - that in the UK there have been no SIDE EFFECT of clotting issues caused by the vaccine.

I didnt say there had been zero people with clots just that they didn't increase by mass vaccine use of the AZ vaccine.
I quoted the AZ press release. You simply cannot say that the vaccine has caused no blood clots at all, and AZ won't say that either. There is no evidence for that claim. Unfortunately no indication of excess blood clots is not an indicator that none has resulted from the vaccine.

The classic case in this field is the claim that smoking is protective against Alzheimer's disease. It is true that the incidence of Alzheimer's is lower among smokers than non-smokers. The reason is that statistically, more smokers die before Alzheimer's develops.

Nobody knows yet whether any of the cases of clotting can be attributed to AZ's or any other vaccines. But it looks like any risks of increased blood clotting, if it exists, is offset by a protective factor to make the overall net incidence low or even negative.
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AZ not only protects from COVID but from blood clotting too.
As above, no evidence yet.

Last edited by Guest; 16.03.2021 at 14:25. Reason: Thanks, BM!
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Old 16.03.2021, 13:53
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Re: Coronavirus

Either way there are some excellent spin doctors at work!

Best way to eliminate competition is to make them look bad.
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  #22532  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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On the other hand, I'm also conscious that 0.04% and 0.0004% are very small numbers difficult to measure and probably confidence intervals are wide enough to overlap over a significant interval. But, I try to not think to much about it, and repeat to myself that 0.0004% is 100x less than 0.04% (or similar numbers).
You should also multiply the first number to the probability to catch virus, as it's not 100%. I managed not to catch it during one year and I hope to do so for another few months before I can get my Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.
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Old 16.03.2021, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is exactly what is happening now — the search for answers to explain several serious cases of side effects. Science is the process, and not some kind enlightenment which so-called experts bring to us on the TV talk shows. The issue will be investigated and hopefully corrected.
Indeed, science is method and processes. Quite probably the people with adverse reactions have something in common. That something in common needs to be determined and added to the list of "If you have X, notify your doctor before getting the vaccine or if you have X this vaccine is not for you".

I'm wondering if the difference in opinions is just the difference in delayed gratification among people. The ones that take the immediate reward want everything to end now yesterday, use whatever available now to end it. The ones that forgo the immediate pleasure for a long-term reward think about science as a method and an ongoing process. If that's the case, there's nothing to do but accept and embrace the diversity of opinion.
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  #22534  
Old 16.03.2021, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

Really curious what out BR will decide on nnn nnn nnn nineteenth 19th!!!!! (Paul Hardcastle - Nineteen)

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In Germany, new corona infections are increasing again. One expert speaks of exponential growth. He considers the relaxation to be a fatal mistake.

Germany reported almost 5500 new corona infections on Tuesday, over 1200 more than a week ago.

"To loosen up in this situation was totally irrational," says a German expert.

Germany is at the beginning of a third wave.
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Old 16.03.2021, 13:59
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LOL, what a thing to wonder about.
That's a commonly used phrase among Russian speakers, maybe not so widely used in English speaking community.
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Old 16.03.2021, 14:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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The classic case in this field is the claim that smoking is protective against Alzheimer's disease. It is true that the incidence of Alzheimer's is higher among smokers than non-smokers. The reason is that statistically, more smokers die before Alzheimer's develops.
You might want to edit this. I think you’ve got the second sentence the wrong way round.
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Old 16.03.2021, 14:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Really curious what out BR will decide on nnn nnn nnn nineteenth 19th!!!!! (Paul Hardcastle - Nineteen)
France is in a similar position to Germany and is trying really hard to avoid having to go into ‘lockdown’ again at the moment.
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Old 16.03.2021, 14:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Pfizer has exactly same issues reported: blood complications. why ts so quiet about Pfizer f.ex?
It's a mystery

Pfizer execs say there's a 'significant opportunity' to hike prices of its COVID vaccine

https://www.businessinsider.com/pfiz...21-3?r=US&IR=T
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Old 16.03.2021, 14:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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“Events involving blood clots, some with unusual features such as low numbers of platelets, have occurred in a very small number of people who received the vaccine,” EMA said in a statement.

“Many thousands of people develop blood clots annually in the EU for different reasons. The number of thromboembolic events overall in vaccinated people seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population.”

As of March 10th, 30 cases of thromboembolic events (blood clots) had been reported among almost 5 million people vaccinated with AstraZeneca in the European Economic Area.

The Swedish Public Health Agency said no cases of blood clots in combination with low levels of platelets had been reported in Sweden.
probably paywalled
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Old 16.03.2021, 14:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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France is in a similar position to Germany and is trying really hard to avoid having to go into ‘lockdown’ again at the moment.
I thought the position of France is worse because some hospitals in Paris are relocating the patients again. I don't think it's that bad in Germany (and probably never be).
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