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  #23061  
Old 23.03.2021, 01:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Note that death figures in the US are inflated as Medicare (health care insurance for 65+ in the US) reimburses hospitals more for a COVID diagnosis. And as such, stats reveal (in the US at least) those who die "With" a covid diagnosis as opposed to those who die "From" a COVID diagnosis.

This is a salient issue as in previous years, if a person died of a heart attack but also had influenza or pneumonia,, the death certificate would read heart attack. Now, in the US...any COVID-related death is reported as COVID. The stats are skewed at best in my view.

Hospitals reap more money from Medicare (and the majority of fatalities in the US qualify for Medicare) with a COVID diagnosis. With elective surgeries down and then some, hospitals need the revenue so are more than happy to report "COVID" deaths as it suits them!

Sad to say, I cannot blame hospitals for doing so to continue as an ongoing business. But the "death" stats which the CDC has provided? Sorry... I don't trust them at al!l
You keep promoting this story, but I can find no relevant evidence supporting your claim.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...-s-complicated

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/f...hs/6764078002/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...are-inflated1/
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  #23062  
Old 23.03.2021, 02:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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The "EU" hasn't made nor exported a single vaccine
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You seem to be having trouble understanding how this works. There is a contract in place between the various vaccine suppliers and various countries. Where the vaccines are manufactured is neither here nor there as we're living with globalised supply chains. These are not EU vaccines and nor did the EU didn't develop them. These are vaccines that have been paid for by other countries that are simply manufactured within the EU. Irish Taoiseach Micheál Martin said as much today.
So now, later the same day, you admit that COVID-19 vaccines—hundreds of millions of doses, in fact—are indeed manufactured in and exported from the EU.

I don't know what point you are trying to make here. To take one example, Germany invested substantially in the development of the BioNTech vaccine (Fosun Pharma, a Chinese company, was also heavily involved in early trials and Pfizer, an American company, took on broad manufacturing and distribution responsibility). Clearly, Germany is in the EU. Are you saying that because the EU itself didn't fund the vaccine (which Trump tried to claim as an all-American triumph of his own making), it doesn't count as having been developed and manufactured in and exported from the EU?

You have a rather odd way of thinking.
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  #23063  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:23
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Re: Coronavirus

Some good news
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Dexamethasone may have saved lives of 1 million COVID sufferers, says NHS
And AZ still in rough waters
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Results from a U.S. trial of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine may have used “outdated information,” federal health officials said early Tuesday.
The Data and Safety Monitoring Board said in a statement that it was concerned that AstraZeneca may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data of the two-dose vaccine.
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  #23064  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:24
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Re: Coronavirus

I honestly do not have much knowledge on the whole EU/Brexit political mess right now with the AZ vaccine, but I have been following the vaccine closely from the beginning & it continues to raise alarms.

From the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03...gtype=Homepage


"Federal health officials said early Tuesday that results from a U.S. trial of AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine may have relied on “outdated information” that “may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data,” casting doubt on an announcement on Monday that had been seen as good news for the company as well as the global vaccination drive.

In a highly unusual statement released after midnight, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said that the data and safety monitoring board, an independent panel of medical experts under the National Institutes of Health that has been helping to oversee AstraZeneca’s U.S. trial, had notified government agencies and AstraZeneca late Monday that it was “concerned” by information the drugmaker had released that morning.

The institute urged AstraZeneca to work with the monitoring board “to review the efficacy data and ensure the most accurate, up-to-date efficacy data be made public as quickly as possible.”

In a news release on Monday announcing the results of the U.S. trial, AstraZeneca said that the vaccine it developed with the University of Oxford was 79 percent effective against Covid-19, higher than observed in previous trials, and completely prevented the worst outcomes from the disease. The long-anticipated results were seen as encouraging global confidence in the vaccine, which was shaken this month when more than a dozen countries, mostly in Europe, temporarily suspended the shot’s use over concerns about possible rare side effects.

In recent days, the monitoring board’s analysis was delayed several times because the board had to ask AstraZeneca for revised reports from those handling trial data on behalf of the company, according to a person familiar with the matter who was not authorized to discuss it publicly.

The monitoring board ultimately conveyed the results of the study to AstraZeneca in a meeting over the weekend, leading to the company’s announcement Monday morning.

Asked about the issues with data submission to the monitoring board, an AstraZeneca spokeswoman, whom AstraZeneca declined to name, said Friday that it was “completely incorrect” that the trial data had formatting problems or had not been submitted to the study monitor in a clean fashion.

“As is often the case,” the spokeswoman said, monitoring boards “can request new or clarifying analyses of data from the trial. This would enable them to ensure the robustness of their determinations.”

AstraZeneca did not immediately return a request for comment early Tuesday.

Dr. Eric Topol, a clinical trials expert at Scripps Research in San Diego, said it was “highly irregular” to see such a public display of friction between a monitoring board and a study sponsor, which are typically in close concordance.

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said in an interview after the institute’s statement was released. “It’s so, so troubling.”

AstraZeneca’s U.S. trial, which involved more than 32,000 participants, was the largest test of its kind for the shot. Although no clinical trial is large enough to rule out extremely rare side effects, AstraZeneca reported that its study turned up no serious safety issues.

The fresh data may have arrived too late to make much difference in the United States, where the vaccine is not yet authorized and is unlikely to become available before May. By then, federal officials predict, there will be enough vaccine doses for all of the nation’s adults from the three vaccines that have already been authorized: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson.

Even so, the better-than-expected results were seen as a heartening turn for AstraZeneca’s shot, whose low cost and simple storage requirements have made it a vital piece of the drive to vaccinate the world.

The results were also thought to ease concerns about the AstraZeneca vaccine in Europe. In an effort to increase public confidence, many European political leaders have gotten the injections in recent days.

Regulators in Europe initiated a safety review of AstraZeneca’s vaccine earlier this month after a small number of people who had recently been inoculated developed blood clots and abnormal bleeding. The trial did not turn up any sign of such problems, although some safety issues can only be detected in the real world, once a drug or vaccine has been given to millions of people.

AstraZeneca said on Monday that it would continue to analyze the new data and prepare to apply in the coming weeks for emergency authorization from the Food and Drug Administration. The vaccine has already been approved in more than 70 countries, but clearance from American regulators would bolster its global reputation."
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  #23065  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:38
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Re: Coronavirus

I still believe AZ is a very good vaccine based on the studies from UK etc.

However, as a corporation they must be either totally unlucky or totally incompetent if they still stumble from one PR disaster into the next.
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  #23066  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:40
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Re: Coronavirus

The world must really hate vaccines that cost $2 per shot, produced at no profit and that can be stored in a normal refrigerator
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  #23067  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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I still believe AZ is a very good vaccine based on the studies from UK etc.

However, as a corporation they must be either totally unlucky or totally incompetent if they still stumble from one PR disaster into the next.
Not making a profit & selling at cost is a pretty big PR hit, as so many hate greedy corporations.
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  #23068  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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The world must really hate vaccines that cost $2 per shot, produced at no profit and that can be stored in a normal refrigerator
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Not making a profit & selling at cost is a pretty big PR hit, as so many hate greedy corporations.
You know that many people associate price with quality, often wrongly.

A combination of that perception, coming in after the mRNA vaxes (so not as “cool” ) and some apparent bungling of the results may have increased prejudice against the vax. I’m actually a fan of many EU policies, but I believe their handling of the vax is atrocious. It should not be a political football.

Cheap vaxes are ok for “other people” but “we” want the flashy gold standard. It’s the way lots of people think. Truthfully, I’d prefer J&J but I’d take whatever I get - I got Moderna.
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  #23069  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Truthfully, I’d prefer J&J but I’d take whatever I get - I got Moderna.
I’d take frickin’ Sputnik right now if I could get my life back!!
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  #23070  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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You know that many people associate price with quality, often wrongly.

A combination of that perception, coming in after the mRNA vaxes (so not as “cool” ) and some apparent bungling of the results may have increased prejudice against the vax. I’m actually a fan of many EU policies, but I believe their handling of the vax is atrocious. It should not be a political football.

Cheap vaxes are ok for “other people” but “we” want the flashy gold standard. It’s the way lots of people think. Truthfully, I’d prefer J&J but I’d take whatever I get - I got Moderna.
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I’d take frickin’ Sputnik right now if I could get my life back!!
I just saw an interview from the Maltese deputy prime minister who is the health minister & a Dr. He said all their vaccines have come from the EU programme. The other countries just did not order all they could have done. So it's the individual countries at fault.

https://www.facebook.com/covid19malt...63065558630290
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  #23071  
Old 23.03.2021, 09:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Truthfully, I’d prefer J&J but I’d take whatever I get - I got Moderna.
This the key point, just anything to get life back to normal. I am starting to understand a little more why the US has so many TV commercials for drugs though!
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  #23072  
Old 23.03.2021, 10:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not making a profit & selling at cost is a pretty big PR hit, as so many hate greedy corporations.
Not sure. Looks like no one who gets vaccinated will get a direct bill. All they remember is the trouble with AZ and I would not be surprised if there is negative spill over onto other AZ products.
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  #23073  
Old 23.03.2021, 10:06
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Re: Coronavirus

I just found out that two neighbours on our street have been recovering from Covid these past few weeks.

One lady is in her late 40s, quite obese with blood pressure problems and generally quite unhealthy. She "suffered" for 2 days and described Covid as like having a bad hangover.

The other lady is in her mid 30s, relatively fit and healthy, had a baby 8 months ago. She was in ICU for 2 weeks on a ventilator and the doctors do not think she is in the clear yet. I had noticed her absence the past week because we normally drop off our kids in the morning at the same time.

I was feeling rather jaded about the whole Covid situation recently, but after hearing this news today, I'm back to feeling on-edge again.
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  #23074  
Old 23.03.2021, 10:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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The other lady is in her mid 30s, relatively fit and healthy, had a baby 8 months ago. She was in ICU for 2 weeks on a ventilator and the doctors do not think she is in the clear yet. I had noticed her absence the past week because we normally drop off our kids in the morning at the same time.
Same, I have a mid-thirties acquaintance that had a baby 6 months ago...she is currently in the ICU for one week now and is in critical condition.

More stories are coming out on the long term problems post Covid...I need to stop reading the news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/h...gtype=Homepage
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  #23075  
Old 23.03.2021, 10:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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This the key point, just anything to get life back to normal. I am starting to understand a little more why the US has so many TV commercials for drugs though!
Exactly......take the info direct to the consumer so they can pester the doctor for a script. Not always the best info or the most healthy outcome, but there you have it.
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  #23076  
Old 23.03.2021, 10:43
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Re: Coronavirus

@Tony,

Yes, you're actually right. The EU didn't produce any anti-covid vaccine which is shameful. Global supply chain my ass, we have the capacity and we should think more to never rely on others again.
If China and heck, Russia did it......Russia has a vaccine and EU doesn't. lol
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  #23077  
Old 23.03.2021, 11:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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@Tony,

Yes, you're actually right. The EU didn't produce any anti-covid vaccine which is shameful. Global supply chain my ass, we have the capacity and we should think more to never rely on others again.
If China and heck, Russia did it......Russia has a vaccine and EU doesn't. lol
I guess the production of Pfizer was left to the US then? Because wasn’t it developed jointly with Bio N Tech - a German firm?
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  #23078  
Old 23.03.2021, 11:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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I guess the production of Pfizer was left to the US then? Because wasn’t it developed jointly with Bio N Tech - a German firm?
Wasn’t the Pfizer vaccine for Europe produced in Belgium?

And didn’t Germany (not the EU but an EU country) invest quite a lot of money on the vaccine research at Bio N Tech?
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  #23079  
Old 23.03.2021, 11:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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I still believe AZ is a very good vaccine based on the studies from UK etc.

Everyone I know personally who's been vaccinated in the last few weeks in the UK has had the AZ, obviously in my circle of friends which is limited. That said I've seen tons of posts of other people on FB posts (e.g. friends of friends) all of whom seem to have had the AZ.
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Old 23.03.2021, 11:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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@Tony,

Yes, you're actually right. The EU didn't produce any anti-covid vaccine which is shameful. Global supply chain my ass, we have the capacity and we should think more to never rely on others again.
If China and heck, Russia did it......Russia has a vaccine and EU doesn't. lol
It's not that vaccines aren't being produced in the EU, the problem is the EU has messed up on procurement contracts and distribution. What's worse is they have been trying to cover up these failings by undermining the AstraZeneca vaccine.

You needn't look to China or Russia for bad vaccine behaviour, look at the US. Their "America First" vaccine nationalism in my opinion is appalling. I believe Canada has purchased more vaccines per head than any other country, but is very slow in the vaccine rollout just because the US has banned the export of vaccines.

This is where the UK government deserves tremendous credit, in that they saw this issue coming along and went from having zero vaccine manufacturing plants at the start of 2020 to the two that are currently in operation, which should be four by the end of the year.
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