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Old 08.04.2021, 20:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I remember a neighbour in the UK telling us she did not have to MMR vaccinate her kid, because all of us suckers had ours vaccinated. Nice!
This is no way an attack on you, however you've illustrated a nice example of how it's so hard to have a adult conversation these days with people about vaccines. As many crazy anti-vaxxers as there are, there's probably an equal number of people willing to shout "anti-vaxxer!" at those who simply refuse to take up every vaccine that is on offer.

My kids are vaccinated MMR, as it's something that is safe, sensible and effective. They were never vaccinated against Chickenpox. This is something that I consider to be such a low risk if they contract it young and it does no lasting harm. The eldest caught it and is now immune. The younger kids haven't yet had it, if this continues, I'll probably end up getting them vaccinated.
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  #23862  
Old 08.04.2021, 21:01
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I'm listening to all the press conferences dedicated to coronavirus. The offer of rapid testing is indeed limited, as not all the pharmacies are doing this and many of them require appointments to be made prior to visit, so you might not be able to get an appointment at the nearest place for the convenient time, but limiting a certain person in the number of tests he/she can have in a certain canton - that is something completely new. I never heard anyone from the authorities being asked about it or mentioning it.

The result is ready in 15 min and the person is supposed to be informed immediately (maybe even have PCR test straight away if the result is positive? I'm not sure). Not informing the person would violate the whole idea of these tests.
Would you mind posting a link to this information? I can't find anything and I've not heard about it on the news but I am interested in a antibody-test. Thanks.
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Old 08.04.2021, 21:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is no way an attack on you, however you've illustrated a nice example of how it's so hard to have a adult conversation these days with people about vaccines. As many crazy anti-vaxxers as there are, there's probably an equal number of people willing to shout "anti-vaxxer!" at those who simply refuse to take up every vaccine that is on offer.

My kids are vaccinated MMR, as it's something that is safe, sensible and effective. They were never vaccinated against Chickenpox. This is something that I consider to be such a low risk if they contract it young and it does no lasting harm. The eldest caught it and is now immune. The younger kids haven't yet had it, if this continues, I'll probably end up getting them vaccinated.
You really don't have to make a point by sharing your family vaccination history, Tony. That beats a bit that argument of vax passport and individual's health data protection. In my view, of course.

I also do not think that shaming people either into vaxing (by comparing again wrongly flu jabs and CV vax - marton, not the same thing) is going to work. Or feeling that you have to overshare your personal health details. Just because some people push here and compare incomparable diseases, vax programs and risks.

I bet my shoes on all of us being vaxed by Christmas. Then we should have EF Christmas drinks.
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Old 08.04.2021, 21:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is no way an attack on you, however you've illustrated a nice example of how it's so hard to have a adult conversation these days with people about vaccines. As many crazy anti-vaxxers as there are, there's probably an equal number of people willing to shout "anti-vaxxer!" at those who simply refuse to take up every vaccine that is on offer.

My kids are vaccinated MMR, as it's something that is safe, sensible and effective. They were never vaccinated against Chickenpox. This is something that I consider to be such a low risk if they contract it young and it does no lasting harm. The eldest caught it and is now immune. The younger kids haven't yet had it, if this continues, I'll probably end up getting them vaccinated.
The Swiss take on the chicken pox vaccine is that it’s not on the regular vaccination schedule but if a child hasn’t had it by the time they reach puberty they recommend having them vaccinated as it is usually a much more serious illness in adults.
That was pretty much my take on it too, we would have got the vaccine if they hadn’t caught chicken pox as young children.
The chicken pox vaccine is much more effective now than it used to be, I think it’s over 80% now.

It’s important to weigh up the pros and cons of any vaccine before deciding whether to have it or not.
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Old 08.04.2021, 21:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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For this reason if you are young, then it would be worth thinking twice as to whether or not you want to get the vaccine. My kids will not be getting a Covid vaccine even if it is eventually approved for them, until we understand more about them. I think anyhow that clinical trials on kids for these vaccine is dodgy ethically given the risk Covid poses to them.
Based on children's death rates alone that's reasonable.

However there's long covid.

If defined as having symptoms that keep you from doing day-to-day activities after 12 or more weeks after the covid diagnose, it seems to affect more than 10% of the cases in the UK. The 24-34yr old are affected the most, some 18% of them; I find that noteworthy because it highlights the possibility (nope, I have no numbers) that the young may be affected overproportionally.
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Old 08.04.2021, 21:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is no way an attack on you, however you've illustrated a nice example of how it's so hard to have a adult conversation these days with people about vaccines. As many crazy anti-vaxxers as there are, there's probably an equal number of people willing to shout "anti-vaxxer!" at those who simply refuse to take up every vaccine that is on offer.

My kids are vaccinated MMR, as it's something that is safe, sensible and effective. They were never vaccinated against Chickenpox. This is something that I consider to be such a low risk if they contract it young and it does no lasting harm. The eldest caught it and is now immune. The younger kids haven't yet had it, if this continues, I'll probably end up getting them vaccinated.
As a side point, if your child or anyone else out there who had Chicken Pox as a child, make sure you get the Shringrix vaccine as an antidote to Shingles (90-97% effective) as opposed to the older vaccine Zovirax. My OH's colleague (early 40s in age) recently suffered from Shingles across his forehead (pre-COVID). He said he has never endured so much pain in his life and it took months for him to feel back to normal.

Just read that this vaccine has still not been approved in Switzerland but is available in France and Germany. After seeing my OH colleague's face, both of us had the vaccine straight away in the US 2 years ago. What rhymes with excruciating pain? No thank you and after we saw him, we got our shots as soon as we could.

For those interested, here is a useful link:

https://www.drugs.com/medical-answer...ngrix-3342576/
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  #23867  
Old 08.04.2021, 21:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Based on children's death rates alone that's reasonable.

However there's long covid.

If defined as having symptoms that keep you from doing day-to-day activities after 12 or more weeks after the covid diagnose, it seems to affect more than 10% of the cases in the UK. The 24-34yr old are affected the most, some 18% of them.
CZ reported some children died, with CV multuliple organ failure, 5 children if I remember well. Long covid syndrome was reported with children as well even for babies, some had heart problems, apart from other long covid symptoms. They are debating over vaxing children as well, when there are enough vaccines.

The new Secy of Health in CZ who was appointed a few days ago, made a statement on currently mandatory FFP2, that measure will probably last over the summer.

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Old 08.04.2021, 21:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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I remember a neighbour in the UK telling us she did not have to MMR vaccinate her kid, because all of us suckers had ours vaccinated. Nice!
From a certain perspective it makes sense. If all others in the town are vaccinated, the contagion risk is limited.

From another perspective, it's really parochial how parents underestimate how many different people kids and future adults will meet soon. Indeed, that's how recent measles outbreaks work. As long as the child is among the children of the village suckers everything's fine. One day the child goes to Disneyland (2015) or to a hospital in Milano (2017) for an unrelated illness and gets it.

IN the covid case, on average a town may have a 50% vaccination rate. But heterogeneity is life, at any points outbreaks will keep occurring. Less frequently, but they'll keep happening.
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Old 08.04.2021, 22:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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From a certain perspective it makes sense. If all others in the town are vaccinated, the contagion risk is limited.

From another perspective, it's really parochial how parents underestimate how many different people kids and future adults will meet soon. Indeed, that's how recent measles outbreaks work. As long as the child is among the children of the village suckers everything's fine. One day the child goes to Disneyland (2015) or to a hospital in Milano (2017) for an unrelated illness and gets it.
In 2008 the European football (soccer) championship was co-hosted by Switzerland and Austria. It was on the brink of cancellation due to a measles outbreak. The source was CH, its Rudolf-Steiner school (called Waldorf schools elsewhere) in Muttenz (Basel-Land) to be precise. A teacher there couldn't be arsed to keep his pupils from attending a music event in Salzburg (Austria) that was attended by pupils from all over Europe even though measles cases had already shown up in his class. 260 cases were traced to one child from Muttenz.

Anthroposophists commonly don't get their children vaccinated, they're often the source or critical factor in many measles outbreaks here, they seem to be involved in easily half the outbreaks.
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Old 08.04.2021, 22:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Would you mind posting a link to this information? I can't find anything and I've not heard about it on the news but I am interested in a antibody-test. Thanks.
There might be a misunderstanding between us. I was talking about rapid antigen test that reveals current infection, because that's what was mentioned in the original post about 7 tests limitation in Neuenburg. I re-read your post and understood that you were talking about antibodies test. You probably mean the test that shows prior infection, that's something different. This is done for research purposes in different cantons and the results are probably not disclosed to the persons indeed. I think it's possible to do it in Switzerland but only for your own money. Or maybe you can buy some cheap quick test in the Internet, but the results won't be very precise.
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Old 08.04.2021, 22:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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That was pretty much my take on it too, we would have got the vaccine if they hadn’t caught chicken pox as young children.
The chicken pox vaccine is much more effective now than it used to be, I think it’s over 80% now.
I didn't get my son vaccinated (the doctor said we have to finish regular vaccinations first) and he got chicken pox, and for him the illness started with 5 big blisters two days before many small ones appeared, and those big ones left the small scars (one of them is on the face right above the eye). So I would prefer that he was vaccinated like his sister rather than had this illness.

BTW, for me this vaccine didn't work, maybe it's simply not as effective for adults as for kids. One more reason for me to vaccinate kids earlier rather than later.
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Old 08.04.2021, 22:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hope by next Christmas there will masks with integrated drinking straws.
What for? The restaurants will be still closed anyway.
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Old 08.04.2021, 23:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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I didn't get my son vaccinated (the doctor said we have to finish regular vaccinations first) and he got chicken pox, and for him the illness started with 5 big blisters two days before many small ones appeared, and those big ones left the small scars (one of them is on the face right above the eye). So I would prefer that he was vaccinated like his sister rather than had this illness.

BTW, for me this vaccine didn't work, maybe it's simply not as effective for adults as for kids. One more reason for me to vaccinate kids earlier rather than later.
Sorry... but I am trying to understand your post. Are you saying that you wanted your child vaccinated with the Chickenpox vaccine and thnk based on your experience that children should receive the COVID vaccine?

If that is the case, I completely disagree. The vaccines for COVID were accelerated regarding approval and as such, no one understands the long-term efficacy nor long-term complications. To contrast, the Shingrix vaccine went through extensive trials to gain FDA approval. Maybe I am missing something here... If so, I apologize...
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Old 09.04.2021, 06:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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I didn't get my son vaccinated (the doctor said we have to finish regular vaccinations first) and he got chicken pox, and for him the illness started with 5 big blisters two days before many small ones appeared, and those big ones left the small scars (one of them is on the face right above the eye). So I would prefer that he was vaccinated like his sister rather than had this illness.

BTW, for me this vaccine didn't work, maybe it's simply not as effective for adults as for kids. One more reason for me to vaccinate kids earlier rather than later.
Mine got it before they caught the disease but funnily enough I had chicken pox as a (young) adult. It wasn't very bad (luckily), just unpleasant and mainly because I had to quarantine myself.

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Sorry... but I am trying to understand your post. Are you saying that you wanted your child vaccinated with the Chickenpox vaccine and thnk based on your experience that children should receive the
I think most people would be happy if (most) adults get vaccinated, nobody really took into consideration vaccinating kids younger than 16 or 18. And for kids would be preferable that single dose vaccine if you ask me.
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Old 09.04.2021, 06:49
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Sorry... but I am trying to understand your post. Are you saying that you wanted your child vaccinated with the Chickenpox vaccine and thnk based on your experience that children should receive the COVID vaccine?
No, I never mentioned covid in my post.
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Old 09.04.2021, 07:43
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Re: Coronavirus

I wonder if/when the Swiss Covid task force would ever consider to study people who already had Coronavirus infection. At the moment there is little mention of them, like they don’t exist. According to the official numbers, over half million people have been infected in the past year. I think in reality this number is higher because not everyone was identified and counted, it could be as high as 10-15-20%. Some effort has to be made to avoid vaccination of these people if possible, but to study them, and some kind of strategy developed for this. Vaccine would be better spent if given to someone who really need it, not people with antibodies. And also these people should be advised to avoid vaccination for their own sake too, as long as their antibody level is high — it is not ethical to subject them to unnecessary vaccination. Some companies, including the one I work for, are collecting data on such people by checking regularly their antibody level to know how long they last. If the government would sponsor the database like this in Switzerland, I would be very happy to participate.
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Old 09.04.2021, 08:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Someone wrote few pages ago that we are behind the neighbours in vaccination campaign.
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Old 09.04.2021, 08:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder if/when the Swiss Covid task force would ever consider to study people who already had Coronavirus infection. At the moment there is little mention of them, like they don’t exist. According to the official numbers, over half million people have been infected in the past year. I think in reality this number is higher because not everyone was identified and counted, it could be as high as 10-15-20%.
These numbers are calculated regularly and the information is available. In canton Vaud 25% if people have antibodies, in canton Zurich 8%.

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And also these people should be advised to avoid vaccination for their own sake too
This is not the commonly shared opinion among western epidemiologists. Many think that it's nothing wrong if you get the vaccine having antibodies. I posted a picture about 10-20 pages ago which showed that people with antibodies do not benefit much from the second dose but so far there is no evidence that vaccination can be harmful to them.
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Old 09.04.2021, 08:47
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These numbers are calculated regularly and the information is available. In canton Vaud 25% if people have antibodies, in canton Zurich 8%.
How can I participate in this?

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This is not the commonly shared opinion among western epidemiologists. Many think that it's nothing wrong if you get the vaccine having antibodies. I posted a picture about 10-20 pages ago which showed that people with antibodies do not benefit much from the second dose but so far there is no evidence that vaccination can be harmful to them.
Harmful or not is irrelevant as long as it is unnecessary (if the antibody level is high). Vaccination could be considered if the level drops.
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Old 09.04.2021, 09:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes... and then some! My query is: why don't more people question the logic here? And the goalposts keep moving...

So, initially, we locked down as to not overwhelm the hospitals. I got that! Now, we have to eradicate a virus that keeps mutating? Don't all viruses mutate? Isn't that why there is an annual flu shot available?

And, governments have chosen a select group of the populace to protect - to the detriment of the majority of the populace... Hmmm! Ask yourself how it is statistically possible/probable that flu deaths and pneumonia have been negligible among the elderly this year? Unless those "deaths" were not conflated with COVID...

What about those who struggle with depression, cancer (who were too frightened to seek treatment). Suicide deaths have soared in the US as have the number of those seeking mental care. Notwithstanding domestic violence.

Let's talk about children - many of whom cannot interact socially! What is the point exactly?

Please tell me how deadly this virus is compared to the flu and pneumonia among the elderly and those compromised in previous years?

And then enlighten me how this will not have deleterious effects on our children/progeny - both psychologically and economically.

What a disaster! My rant done! But my concern is that people blindly accept what the media offers as truth and never question... Do the math!

(Wow this may be my last post here given the backlash...lol)
"Suicide deaths have soared in the US" #fakenews

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The suicide rate in the U.S. fell by nearly 6 percent last year, the largest decline in four decades, despite lockdowns, deaths and other difficulties caused by the coronavirus pandemic, according to preliminary government data.

Fewer than 45,000 suicides were reported last year according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the lowest number of U.S. suicides since 2015.
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