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Old 16.04.2021, 08:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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What do you mean by "lockdown"? People are largely free to move about at any time, the borders have remained open, plenty of Swiss residents still do their tax-free shopping in Germany (food excepted)... Nothing much has changed, apart from measures that are quite similar to what we see in Switzerland—where those measures also haven't worked.

Sorry to say it, but restrictions need to be tightened to control the virus, not loosened, and the vaccination program needs to be accelerated by a factor of ten or more.
Germany is a generalization as most lockdown measures are under the authority of the 16 states. Germany as a country though has been in a continuous state of lockdown since late October or early November. People weren't free to move around at anytime between December and February as there was a national curfew in place. Schools are still not fully open in most of the country. Shops only reopened a few weeks ago and Restaurants remain closed.

Basically Germany has had, and continues to have, far stricter lockdown measures than here in Switzerland, but has seen approximately the same levels of infection. This hasn't escaped the attention of Germany's tabloid media, as these two stories from the last week show (unfortunately behind a paywall, but the first few sentences give enough of an idea).

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politi...-76014544.html

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/news/a...-76023766.html
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Old 16.04.2021, 09:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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My point was not about the right or wrong of the decisions, but about the ridiculous decision making of this government. Set criteria in conjunction with scientifoc advise, question it, disregard it, change course completely, then issue a warning that if s--- hits the fan it is on the citizens. While also sticking their heads in the sand when it comes to vaccination strategy.

And don't confuse me for some f---ing prepper please.
Well, you see, it.is.on.the.citizens.
And your life is on you. I have no idea when people started to believe it isn't.

Our government has a coordination job. No parents-/nanny job. It also has to consider ALL laws in their decisions. The covid-19 law had to be invented for this case and has a shelf-life.

Funny how you believe I spent a single thought on your person when I was reminded of preppers (thanks for the word though, didn't know that's what they're called) and funny how anybody not on your line of thoughts is a fu--ing person. I personally don't mind those preppers, they're kind of fascinating , I just don't understand their logic. Just like yours actually only you are not fascinating, you only bitch about other people's actions while the preppers at least do something. Because - and here the circle closes - they realize that their.life.is.on.them. So they do what they think is right - who cares if it may be crazy or not. They take responsibility for themselves.

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Have you looked in your basement recently?
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They were not designed for nuclear war, they were designed to survive the intense firebombing experienced by Dresden, and other German cities, at the end of WW II. The designs and equipment were later modified to filter the air better, but they were never intended to be used for more than a short period of time.

There was talk about removing the requirement a couple of years back, but that hasn’t happened yet.
Why did you ask if you already knew it had no relevance to my post and answered your own question?!
There is none in by basement actually. I have to go to the neighbour's house apparently, should the Germans decide to drop an old fashioned bomb on us.
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Old 16.04.2021, 09:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Germany is a generalization as most lockdown measures are under the authority of the 16 states. Germany as a country though has been in a continuous state of lockdown since late October or early November. People weren't free to move around at anytime between December and February as there was a national curfew in place. Schools are still not fully open in most of the country. Shops only reopened a few weeks ago and Restaurants remain closed.

Basically Germany has had, and continues to have, far stricter lockdown measures than here in Switzerland, but has seen approximately the same levels of infection. This hasn't escaped the attention of Germany's tabloid media, as these two stories from the last week show (unfortunately behind a paywall, but the first few sentences give enough of an idea).

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politi...-76014544.html

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/news/a...-76023766.html
I will not comment on right or wrong. But I can confirm that Germany had very tough lock-down rules for their own citizens. I was stunned to hear how my friend basically can't bloody move.
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  #24244  
Old 16.04.2021, 09:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Tell me how is the science consistent exactly? Unless the scientific papers to which you refer run analogous to your personal views? Your views and science are infallible?

From what I have read, the "science" keeps changing! First masks, then no masks. Then hand sanitizers - oh wait - the CDC just acknowledged that this virus does not transmit through surfaces.

And now, we have signs all over Zurich at bus stops and tram stops claiming masks must be worn here - except... new evidence suggests the chance of catching the virus outdoors is infinitesimal/highly unlikely.

What a joke the WHO and the CDC are!

My sense, given what I have read, this virus is more infectious and more serious than the flu - but not much more so. I think deaths have been conflated...

That is my sense but I could be wrong. Frankly, you could be wrong too
"The Science" has been settled for about half a century. It's only in the past year that we started believing that this spooky virus has magic properties able to defy science.

The result is that in the past year we've decided to just to ignore the settled science so we're forced to wear masks, that we quarantine the healthy, and take asymptomatic transmission as a serious threat. All these things were unthinkable two years ago. You are right to criticize the CDC and WHO who just ignored their own pandemic planning literature, and then completely rewrote it!
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  #24245  
Old 16.04.2021, 10:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, you see, it.is.on.the.citizens.
And your life is on you. I have no idea when people started to believe it isn't.

Our government has a coordination job. No parents-/nanny job. It also has to consider ALL laws in their decisions. The covid-19 law had to be invented for this case and has a shelf-life.

Funny how you believe I spent a single thought on your person when I was reminded of preppers (thanks for the word though, didn't know that's what they're called) and funny how anybody not on your line of thoughts is a fu--ing person. I personally don't mind those preppers, they're kind of fascinating , I just don't understand their logic. Just like yours actually only you are not fascinating, you only bitch about other people's actions while the preppers at least do something. Because - and here the circle closes - they realize that their.life.is.on.them. So they do what they think is right - who cares if it may be crazy or not. They take responsibility for themselves.
Grand. And totally besides the point I was trying to make.
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  #24246  
Old 16.04.2021, 10:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Germany is a generalization as most lockdown measures are under the authority of the 16 states. Germany as a country though has been in a continuous state of lockdown since late October or early November. People weren't free to move around at anytime between December and February as there was a national curfew in place. Schools are still not fully open in most of the country. Shops only reopened a few weeks ago and Restaurants remain closed.

Basically Germany has had, and continues to have, far stricter lockdown measures than here in Switzerland, but has seen approximately the same levels of infection. This hasn't escaped the attention of Germany's tabloid media, as these two stories from the last week show (unfortunately behind a paywall, but the first few sentences give enough of an idea).

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politi...-76014544.html

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/news/a...-76023766.html
The 14-day notification rate of newly reported COVID-19 cases per 100 000 population is currently 50% higher for Germany than Switzerland.
That is not "approximately the same levels of infection."
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Old 16.04.2021, 10:37
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Re: Coronavirus

Canton Zurich opens appointments for the groups F, G and O - medical staff and 16-17 yo with chronical illnesses.
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Old 16.04.2021, 10:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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The 14-day notification rate of newly reported COVID-19 cases per 100 000 population is currently 50% higher for Germany than Switzerland.
That is not "approximately the same levels of infection."
Yes, it is.

Tom
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Old 16.04.2021, 10:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Furthermore: my risk of death is about 0.5% on the outside,
I don't understand this bit of your post. Risk of death from what? And over what period? The risk of death (for all persons) from COVID-19 is clearly not 1 in 200. Not even for those who contract the virus.
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Old 16.04.2021, 10:45
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Yes, it is.

Tom
It really isn't. That's basic mathematics.
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Old 16.04.2021, 10:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't understand this bit of your post. Risk of death from what? And over what period? The risk of death (for all persons) from COVID-19 is clearly not 1 in 200. Not even for those who contract the virus.

Not for all persons. This is an estimate of CFR for acute Covid for a woman in her forties with certain risk factors. (The actual risk is probably quite a bit lower, I do understand the caveats, IFR =/= CFR). Again, this is not the part that really scares me.
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Old 16.04.2021, 10:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Canton Zurich opens appointments for the groups F, G and O - medical staff and 16-17 yo with chronical illnesses.
The young lady who did my vaccine yesterday told me that and was thrilled about it. She said she had been able to get the vaccine because they give those doing the vaccinations the option of signing up to get any leftover doses at the end of the day (because people actually don't show up sometimes, imagine that, you get an appointment before almost everyone else and then just blow it!). However, she was worried about her friends working in the medical industry because of the expected rise of cases following the continued loosening of measures.

So if they opened appointments for Risk Group 1 on 29th March and are opening the next lot today, then "everyone else" might be able to get an appointment as of the second week of May? Fingers crossed. I want to hug my friends again.
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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I understand the point you're making, but it is an airborne infectious disease we're talking about and an individual's choices impact not just that individual, but potentially many others. Your choice to stop taking your statins for your cardiovascular disease will impact only your life; your choice to attend a fitness center, while cases are high and going up, might impact my life.
Every day choices of people around us might and do impact our lives -- this is the norm of living in any society. I don't think "might impact my life" is a good argument against the relaxation of the restrictions. Maybe the decision should be based on the risk vs benefit assessment, and not your personal risk and benefit but the community as a whole.
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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The young lady who did my vaccine yesterday told me that and was thrilled about it. She said she had been able to get the vaccine because they give those doing the vaccinations the option of signing up to get any leftover doses at the end of the day .......... Fingers crossed. I want to hug my friends again.
BE PREPARED FOR A BOOSTER DOSE in 12 months (The Big Pharma has it all
set up with co-operation from Dr. Fauci !)

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months/ar-BB1fGU5N?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
www.msn.com"
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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It really isn't. That's basic mathematics.
I consider anything less than 100-200% higher to be approximately the same.

Tom
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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BE PREPARED FOR A BOOSTER DOSE in 12 months (The Big Pharma has it all
set up with co-operation from Dr. Fauci !)

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months/ar-BB1fGU5N?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
www.msn.com"
There is nothing here that makes your claim about Dr. Fauci credible.
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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BE PREPARED FOR A BOOSTER DOSE in 12 months (The Big Pharma has it all
set up with co-operation from Dr. Fauci !)

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months/ar-BB1fGU5N?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
www.msn.com"
I thought it was well known that neither vaccination nor coronavirus infection would give you the lifelong immunity, so the repeated vaccinations might be necessary. What does this have to do with the evil Big Pharma and Dr. Fauci?
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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BE PREPARED FOR A BOOSTER DOSE in 12 months (The Big Pharma has it all
set up with co-operation from Dr. Fauci !)

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months/ar-BB1fGU5N?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
www.msn.com"
Coronavirus has the potential to constantly mutate (and is already doing so), so it is likely and reasonable that a periodic booster may be needed to protect from any new major strains. Isn't that just common sense?
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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BE PREPARED FOR A BOOSTER DOSE in 12 months (The Big Pharma has it all
set up with co-operation from Dr. Fauci !)

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months/ar-BB1fGU5N?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
www.msn.com"
The vaccination itself works much longer but leaves your body via a 5G stream. Research has proved though that this doesn't happen if you wrap tin foil around your head. The pharma industry just doesn't want you to know this.
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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I consider anything less than 100-200% higher to be approximately the same.

Tom
In this case I think a factor 10 is warranted.
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