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Old 17.04.2021, 09:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is why I said it was the pandemic in a nutshell. A doctor, half a century’s worth of work experience, expresses doubt over the vaccine. Instantly dismissed as a Covidiot.
It does beg the question as to why he was administering the vaccine in the first place if he was so against it.
None of the GPs are obliged to do it so he must have signed up for it, probably saw it as a nice little earner.
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  #24342  
Old 17.04.2021, 09:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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It does beg the question as to why he was administering the vaccine in the first place if he was so against it.
None of the GPs are obliged to do it so he must have signed up for it, probably saw it as a nice little earner.
I wonder why all these people don't sue "the state" (whichever that state is)? They moan and groan on online fora, yet do nothing to challenge the whole vaccination thing. They're only persistent (militant way) in sowing the seeds of doubt in naive audience...or so they like to believe.
Get up on the surface and do it properly, not like a coward. Manipulation is disgusting.
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Old 17.04.2021, 12:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nope ... they gave big pharma a bad name, but in reality, big pharma is far more damaging in less obvious ways.
Literally in months the Big Pharma brought the Covid vaccine to the world and turn the global pandemic around. What could be more contributing than this.
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  #24344  
Old 17.04.2021, 12:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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It does beg the question as to why he was administering the vaccine in the first place if he was so against it.
None of the GPs are obliged to do it so he must have signed up for it, probably saw it as a nice little earner.
Not sure if sayings are completely lost in translation but I'll try anyway: this is a like a pig squealing while chewing a corn cob.
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Old 17.04.2021, 13:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is why I said it was the pandemic in a nutshell. A doctor, half a century’s worth of work experience, expresses doubt over the vaccine. Instantly dismissed as a Covidiot.
A doctor talking about vaccines is like a car mechanic discussing the design of a V12. Yes, they're familiar with the stuff but it's not their job.
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  #24346  
Old 17.04.2021, 13:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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A doctor talking about vaccines is like a car mechanic discussing the design of a V12. Yes, they're familiar with the stuff but it's not their job.
A good mechanic discussing the design of a V12 certainly has a far better knowledge of the design and production faults than the designer.

Tom
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Old 17.04.2021, 13:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is why I said it was the pandemic in a nutshell. A doctor, half a century’s worth of work experience, expresses doubt over the vaccine. Instantly dismissed as a Covidiot.

This isn’t unique, thousands of scientists and doctors have been derided, ignored and even deplatformed for daring to question the response to this pandemic.
The path I have always followed in life is if I do not like a doctor's advice then I change my doctor; there are plenty to choose from.
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Old 17.04.2021, 13:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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A good mechanic discussing the design of a V12 certainly has a far better knowledge of the design and production faults than the designer.

Tom
That good mechanic never leaves the small town, where everything has him in a pedestal, to make a career in engine development. Only keeps bitching for the rest of his life.

What was the topic backwater doctors or mechanics?

PS. Now that I remember this situation is that common that even the phrase big fish in small pond was coined.

Last edited by Axa; 17.04.2021 at 13:37. Reason: added the PS.
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  #24349  
Old 17.04.2021, 13:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Certainly not. But saying you don't even want to hear their medical opinion?

Is book burning next on the political agenda?
No, not interested in their opinions when I am paying for their time; only interested in their diagnosis followed by proposing the correct medical mainstream treatment.
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Old 17.04.2021, 13:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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S---, that does not sound good if the delay for Canada is a proxy. Thank God we have AZ coming in vast quantities.
Seems Switzerland is affected after all

"Delayed vaccine delivery

The delivery of the Moderna vaccine is delayed. The health department of the canton of Bern announced this on Saturday.

The canton was informed by the federal government yesterday evening that the delivery of Moderna vaccine, which had been announced as extensive, had only arrived in very small quantities.

In the press release, the canton of Bern expresses its disappointment that the delivery promise made by the federal government has not been kept. The notification of the delay in vaccine delivery reached the canton one day after the federal government requested it not to keep any second doses in stock - among other things, due to the greatly increased delivery security.

In order to be able to ensure a professional process in the future, the canton of Bern calls on the federal government in its press release to reorient itself in terms of personnel and to transfer responsibility for the delivery and vaccination program to business professionals.

The canton of Bern announced that the delivery bottleneck will not affect the implementation of the vaccination appointments planned for the coming week. However, the scheduling must be adjusted to the new circumstances from the week after next, April 26, 2021."

https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/coronav...n-429171943512
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  #24351  
Old 17.04.2021, 14:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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A good mechanic discussing the design of a V12 certainly has a far better knowledge of the design and production faults than the designer.

Tom
It is still the designer who has to make the design changes.
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  #24352  
Old 17.04.2021, 14:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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The path I have always followed in life is if I do not like a doctor's advice then I change my doctor; there are plenty to choose from.
Sounds like you don't really need a Dr
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Old 17.04.2021, 14:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Seems Switzerland is affected after all

"Delayed vaccine delivery

The delivery of the Moderna vaccine is delayed. The health department of the canton of Bern announced this on Saturday.

The canton was informed by the federal government yesterday evening that the delivery of Moderna vaccine, which had been announced as extensive, had only arrived in very small quantities.

In the press release, the canton of Bern expresses its disappointment that the delivery promise made by the federal government has not been kept. The notification of the delay in vaccine delivery reached the canton one day after the federal government requested it not to keep any second doses in stock - among other things, due to the greatly increased delivery security.

In order to be able to ensure a professional process in the future, the canton of Bern calls on the federal government in its press release to reorient itself in terms of personnel and to transfer responsibility for the delivery and vaccination program to business professionals.

The canton of Bern announced that the delivery bottleneck will not affect the implementation of the vaccination appointments planned for the coming week. However, the scheduling must be adjusted to the new circumstances from the week after next, April 26, 2021."

https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/coronav...n-429171943512
Grand.

What kind of contractual arrangements are this if BAG did not know of this on Wednesday already?
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  #24354  
Old 17.04.2021, 14:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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The path I have always followed in life is if I do not like a doctor's advice then I change my doctor; there are plenty to choose from.

This is something we often discuss with OH and with colleagues here and in the UK (where he 'practised' and taught medicine for 40 years). The fact patients had to be registered with him in UK, and go through a process to change to another GP, meant 2 things. A) they were indeed stuck with each other for a while and b) it gave the GP a great opportunity to discuss and educate over a period of time.

Sometimes, a patient needs to be told the truth, and what is the cause and how to change the outcome without medical treatment or drugs. Being registered with a GP, as in the UK - means that if a patient reacts negatively to advice, for whatever reason- there is normally a way to discuss this again later, and find ways to limit medical intervention or drugs, or choose a different treatment, etc - to work together for a better outcome.

A doctor who gives the patients the drugs and treatment, surgical or otherwise, via referal or not- is not always the best doctor, and does not necessarily provide the best outcome.

A simple example. Patient presents with very bad chest cold, bordering on pneumonia, or full on pneumonia- for 3rd time in a year. Doctor knows s/he is a heavy smoker. Should doctor not upset the patient, and just hand over prescription for antibiotics, 3rd in a year, and over consecutive years a dozen or more. Or offer help and support to try and limit the amount of smoking and/or possibly stop it altogether. Knowing that it is truly in the patient's best interest.

Sometimes we all have to face facts, and that we can, most of us- be our worst enemies, medically speaking too.
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Old 17.04.2021, 14:52
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Re: Coronavirus

That’s all well and good. But in the circumstance you described previously where a doctor says, “ I don’t believe in this vaccine”, should one go round and round with the doctor.
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Old 17.04.2021, 15:15
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Re: Coronavirus

No, of course not.

As said, in the UK you build up a long-term relationship with your GP- in Switzerland, you can hop on and hop off. In this particular case- I would have hopped off.


On another issue. A few weeks ago I went skiing with a friend and neighbour- and she had a really bad accident. Really bad and complex multiple fractures of tib and fib, and a very complicated fracture of shoulder. She returned home yesterday as there is no space for her to go in rehab. Hospital bed downstairs, wheelchair and twice daily visits by private nursing firm, and physio. She has not been vaccinated as she is under 65, and because of other health issues. She now faces having nursing and physio staff visiting daily- some of whom have refused vaccination- but she has no choice to refuse. Covid would be a disaster for her.

Question is, should care and nursing/medical staff be obligated to accept vaccination - as they are likely to put very vulnerable people at severe risk. (my answer is 'yes').

Last edited by JackieH; 17.04.2021 at 15:49.
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Old 17.04.2021, 16:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Question is, should care and nursing/medical staff be obligated to accept vaccination - as they are likely to put very vulnerable people at severe risk. (my answer is 'yes').
The day it is shown that the vaccines prevent transmission, maybe. If they don't and they only protect the vaccinated person from a severe development, what care and nursing/medical staff have to do is to follow protective measures. With or without vaccination.
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Old 17.04.2021, 18:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Grand.

What kind of contractual arrangements are this if BAG did not know of this on Wednesday already?
So from the little info that is available here, it sounds like Moderna delivered 70k doses to BAG on Friday instead of 350k that were expected. Levy puts the blame on Moderna and also suggests that future delays might be expected and that BAg only learns about this on very short notice.

My interpretation: (1) Switzerland is not part of the big shortfall announced for UK and Canada yesterday where Moderna indicates large and official delays, (2) the contract between BAG and Moderna is so one-sided that Moderna can do pretty much what they want without even notifying, and penalties, if any, are not enough to deter. This might be the case for many of the vaccine contracts where countries had a poor negotiating position last summer - but it is inexcusable for a one-supplier strategy.

And dare I ask: Where are we on AZ, and why isn't Berset kicking in doors at SwissMedic?
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Old 17.04.2021, 18:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Question is, should care and nursing/medical staff be obligated to accept vaccination - as they are likely to put very vulnerable people at severe risk. (my answer is 'yes').
The parents of the classmate of my son have coronavirus, and the mother works in the elderly home in our town. I hope that the old people in that home are vaccinated and that there is no cluster of infection there.
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Old 17.04.2021, 18:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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And dare I ask: Where are we on AZ, and why isn't Berset kicking in doors at SwissMedic?
What for? In our days non-approval of AZ might bring more political bonuses for the government than the approval. The fact that only the most trusted vaccines are used here might be the main reason why the willingness to be vaccinated has grown from about 40% to about 70% in a few months.
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